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Amateria help - creating the ball Exile 3 help

#1 User is offline   JohnLynch 

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 01:58 AM

Okay I've got to the ball where you have to make it up from one of 3 ingrediants (metal, glass/crystal and wood).

Here are the combinations I've come up with:
* 2 parts metal, 2 parts glass
* 2 parts metal, 1 part glass and 1 part wood
* 2 parts metal, 2 parts wood
* 1 part metal, 2 parts glass, 1 part wood
* 1 part metal, 1 part glass, 2 parts wood
* 2 parts glass, 2 parts wood

Those are the only combinations possible, correct?

In addition you have a balance beam that can be either middle, left or right. I tried every single combination above in all 3 positions.

The point of all this is to have the ball go on the track, correct? The difficulty is unless the balance is perfect, the ball smashes, correct?

Well how is it I've tried every single combination and it doesn't work? Does the placement of the ingrediants make a difference? If so then that would mean there are 30 more combinations I haven't tried. Surely the placement doesn't make a difference? Right?

If it does then I imagine my solution lies somewhere within the final 2 attempts I've listed. Even so though, that's still 12 possible combinations. Are there hints or clues anywhere within the game?
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#2 User is offline   afterdark 

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 07:18 AM

I think the main clue is in the room at the bottom of the tusk in J'nanin. There is a balance which shows that 1 metal ball equals 4 glass balls and another balance which shows that 1 glass ball equals 4 wood balls. Once you get to Amateria, there is a lift which takes you up to the ball which runs down to pull one end of the chute. Although you cannot see the other side of this ball, it looks like it is 1 part glass and 7 parts wood, so work on that assumption.

If you go into the hut with the counterbalance, you can see it already has 4 bits of wood on it. The easiest way to get the balance right is to think in terms of wood, since this is the lightest, which means the ball that runs down is equivalent to 11 parts wood.

If we try to balance it 1:1, then the counterbalance needs another 7 parts on it. However, with the 2 wood, 2 metal and 2 glass sections provided, it is not possible to make 7, so obviously a 1:1 ratio is not right, assuming a simple ratio.

The ratio could be complex, but if we assume that it is simple, then the next ratio to try is 1:2, which means we need a total of 22 parts wood on the counterbalance, which is 18 more than is already there. This can be made up from 1 metal section (equivalent of 16 wood sections) and 2 wood sections, which we can make using what is provided.

Go back to the device and select the top setting for the chute pivot point and it works. To be honest, I can't remember if I worked this out first time round, but I do remember confusing wood sections for metal sections until I got the gamma and colour right on my monitor.

Good luck.
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#3 User is offline   JohnLynch 

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 08:45 AM

Aaaah, it didn't even occur to me you didn't have to fill up all of the blocks. Thanks.
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#4 User is offline   Mystress 

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:48 PM

Made that same mistake.... and all because I didn't take notice of Saavy's scales in his office on J'nanin. Now when I play Myst, I look around MUCH more carefully for clues.
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#5 User is offline   J'ohn 

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:44 PM

I think that one of the greatest hamperings of that Amateria puzzle is the fact that there are too few videos which relate to the wrong arrangement of blocks and/or balance positions. If I recall correctly there are only two such "wrong arrangement" videos: one where the balance overshoots the necessary level, and one where it does not quite reach it. Since the number of arrangements is much larger than the respective videos, it is difficult to know if the current arrangement is close or far from the solution.

Of course, making one video for each arrangement would have arguably been overkill... :braces: Not to mention that the puzzle would be reduced from a deduction puzzle to mere fine-tuning.

SBS :rolleyes:
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#6 User is offline   JohnLynch 

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 05:01 PM

 J'ohn, on Oct 10 2006, 04:44 PM, said:

I think that one of the greatest hamperings of that Amateria puzzle is the fact that there are too few videos which relate to the wrong arrangement of blocks and/or balance positions. If I recall correctly there are only two such "wrong arrangement" videos
Actually there's a third. It smashes onto the balance beam. That happens when you have it too light. That's how I knew it had to be heavier then the last one I tried, but lighter then the second last one.
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#7 User is offline   Mike44njdevils 

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 05:20 PM

To continue the vein of this thread, take note in Saavedro's room...

Not only are the scales there, but there is also a mobile showing two people hanging (presumably Sirrus and Achenar) half as close to a pivot as one (presumably Atrus???).

I'm assuming Saavy also had a lot of trouble with this puzzle ^_^
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#8 User is offline   afterdark 

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 01:04 AM

 Mike44njdevils, on Oct 10 2006, 05:20 PM, said:

To continue the vein of this thread, take note in Saavedro's room...

Not only are the scales there, but there is also a mobile showing two people hanging (presumably Sirrus and Achenar) half as close to a pivot as one (presumably Atrus???).

I'm assuming Saavy also had a lot of trouble with this puzzle ^_^

I'd forgotten about the mobile, so I went and had another look. Well spotted. If I noticed it before, it would have seemed such an obvious hanging of the family as you suggest, that I would not have seen it as an example of a 1:2 balance.

Of course, since the ages here were learning ages, I assume that hints were part of the learning process and being able to see the ratio between the ball weights would be part of that. So, if seeing a 1:2 ratio balance was also an example for the 'learner' then I doubt if people hanging by their neck would have been the original example. Maybe they were originally balls until Saavedro's warped mind started playing with the artifacts. (Actually, thinking back to the school room in Riven, the idea of people on strings is not new!).
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#9 User is offline   J'ohn 

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 06:40 AM

 JohnLynch, on Oct 11 2006, 02:01 AM, said:

Actually there's a third. It smashes onto the balance beam. That happens when you have it too light. That's how I knew it had to be heavier then the last one I tried, but lighter then the second last one.

Well, that's good to hear! :rolleyes:

 Mike44njdevils, on Oct 11 2006, 02:20 AM, said:

I'm assuming Saavy also had a lot of trouble with this puzzle ^_^

But note that there are smithereens of more pieces in the counterweight room. Saavedro must have had a much more easier set of pieces among which to choose how to balance the scales.

In most puzzles in Exile, Saavedro had interfered with them to make them much more difficult than they were originally crafted by Atrus.

SBS :braces:
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#10 User is offline   JohnLynch 

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 12:54 AM

 J'ohn, on Oct 11 2006, 07:40 AM, said:

But note that there are smithereens of more pieces in the counterweight room. Saavedro must have had a much more easier set of pieces among which to choose how to balance the scales.

In most puzzles in Exile, Saavedro had interfered with them to make them much more difficult than they were originally crafted by Atrus.
As I work on puzzles like this I like to think at least some of the vandalism was done from frustration :rolleyes: Saavedro angry! Saavedro smash! Puny machine making Saavedro look stupid, Saavedro show machine whose boss!
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#11 User is offline   Mystress 

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:18 PM

Ooh, be careful what you say about Saavedro, JohnLynch. You wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of Kah'teh's hammer! :rolleyes:
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