MYSTcommunity: Myst for the Deaf - MYSTcommunity

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2

Myst for the Deaf Transcriptions of speech and the Selenetic Age

#1 User is offline   kyevan 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 19-June 07

Posted 19 June 2007 - 12:38 PM

I just finished (real)Myst and I have a good friend who I think would love it. Only problem is, he's deaf.

Does anyone have transcriptions of speech and a soundless walkthrough for the Selentic Age, so my friend can enjoy the game?

(I'm not too worried about the other places sound is helpful, the rest all have visual cues as well)
0

#2 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 21 June 2007 - 11:08 PM

View Postkyevan, on Jun 19 2007, 01:38 PM, said:

I just finished (real)Myst and I have a good friend who I think would love it. Only problem is, he's deaf.

Does anyone have transcriptions of speech and a soundless walkthrough for the Selentic Age, so my friend can enjoy the game?

(I'm not too worried about the other places sound is helpful, the rest all have visual cues as well)

You know, now that I think about it, I don't know of any, but that'd be a project I'd be willing to take on myself if you'd like. I can write transcripts of what is spoken, but how would you want the delivery? Do you want it as something your friend could print? or have open in another window/another computer? I ask because digital wise, I could do something to that extent (mouse overs on a PDF for example), however, if it needed to be printed out, I would need to word my delivery differently so that your friend would know what time to read them without spoiling something. (example: It would be bad to say:
Click to reveal hidden content
Text for Atrus Speaking in Imager: "blah blah blah"
because the 'title' to that would give away that
Click to reveal hidden content
Atrus speaks in the imager
and you don't (or shouldn't) know that ahead of time. All you should know is that
Click to reveal hidden content
Atrus left a 'message' there. text? Symbolic? spoken? Smoke signals? Who knows... till you get it.
Unless your friend wouldn't care with that... I dunno. Just be an interesting challenge.

What's your friend's English reading level? (I only ask as I know that English is not normally a Deaf individual's first language as ASL is a seperate language entirely. *took it as a class for two semesters*)
0

#3 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 22 June 2007 - 07:31 AM

Serrinatta, First, welcome to the community. You'll get no tomatoes from me, although I'm sure someone else will take care of it.

From reading your last post I can tell you will be an asset here. I got a real warm and fuzzy from it. It got my day started the right way.

I just wish there were some way to get the moods of soundtrack across as well. Is there possibly? I can't imagine MYST without the music. I was humming the Forechamber Theme in my sleep after playing the game the first time.

If you would like to make the transcripts available and need some free web space, I'd be more than happy to provide it/build a page for it.

olddude, resident curmudgeon (unless you think you know better).
0

#4 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 22 June 2007 - 10:35 AM

Well, I can give you a sample of what I've done for a guide before:

Myst Guide PDF (18.5 megs)

And if you've read my 'journal' (story really), then you know my more creative style of writing as well. ^_^

Music is hard to properly portray as it is often different for everyone who hears it. (Just look at the veriety of music people listen to and then waht they say they hate of music, oy.)

I think, if I were to REALLY try at capturing music, it would be with a pice of abstract art, however, that would pose a unique challenge in making a pice of art that portrays the music without trying to conflict with the artistry of the game itself.... *pause, realizes brain is going faster than fingers... breathes*

Aaaanyway, those are my thoughts.

Oh! And the last thing I wante dto mentionw as the itneractivity of the sound/transcript.
Example: Selentic Age.
Click to reveal hidden content
What if your friend takes a wrong turn in the maze runner? Should I make sound references for all the wrong turns too? I wonder exactly how many choices there ARE in that place @.@


The reason I thought to take it on was that I am currently on a rather large creative streek right now and am, well, loving every bit of it. :3 I'm writing that journal, making arts for people, replaying the games (who knew I'd be able to play Exile for the second time and it would only take one day? Took me more than a month the first time.), etc etc.

Ok NOW those are my thoughts. XD *shuts up*
0

#5 User is offline   CAGrayWolf 

  • The Wolfmeister
  • Group: Moderator
  • Posts: 3,057
  • Joined: 24-January 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Riverside CA USA

  Posted 22 June 2007 - 12:21 PM

If you go to MYST Journals you will find (I believe) all the books and speeches from all the games transcribed there. Also, if you go over to the Guild of Greeters you can find ALL the journals from UrU and MOUL in one place. They also have the transcripts of all the speeches in the game.
0

#6 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 22 June 2007 - 12:54 PM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jun 22 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

Well, I can give you a sample of what I've done for a guide before:

Myst Guide PDF (18.5 megs)

And if you've read my 'journal' (story really), then you know my more creative style of writing as well. ^_^

Music is hard to properly portray as it is often different for everyone who hears it. (Just look at the veriety of music people listen to and then waht they say they hate of music, oy.)

I think, if I were to REALLY try at capturing music, it would be with a pice of abstract art, however, that would pose a unique challenge in making a pice of art that portrays the music without trying to conflict with the artistry of the game itself.... *pause, realizes brain is going faster than fingers... breathes*


Having never worked in this area, I don't know if terminology like "minor" or "major key" has any meaning for someone who has never heard the difference, or if using terms like "Majestic" or "subdued" would either. IE: "Majestic major-key music plays". Can you even describe music as having a "metallic" or "organic" quality (Mechanical versus Channelwood). I have allowed myself to wonder where I would sleep at the conclusion of the game and decided that although Sirrus had the most comfortable quarters, I couldn't sleep there due to the music (and noise in Channelwood). I decided that the Planetarium on MYST would be the best place. The music is quiet and soothing and it would put me right out. Is "quiet" even a meaningful term?

Quote

Aaaanyway, those are my thoughts.

Oh! And the last thing I wante dto mentionw as the itneractivity of the sound/transcript.
Example: Selentic Age.
Click to reveal hidden content
What if your friend takes a wrong turn in the maze runner? Should I make sound references for all the wrong turns too? I wonder exactly how many choices there ARE in that place @.@


Click to reveal hidden content
Since the sounds are very specific for each direction, there must be some technology that could "hear" and translate "ding", "tink", "durreep", etc.
but the cost is probably out of reach.

One of the things that brought me into this community and has caused me to stay is that there are some really sharp minds here. I hope they start thinking about this.

Quote

The reason I thought to take it on was that I am currently on a rather large creative streek right now and am, well, loving every bit of it. :3 I'm writing that journal, making arts for people, replaying the games (who knew I'd be able to play Exile for the second time and it would only take one day? Took me more than a month the first time.), etc etc.

Ok NOW those are my thoughts. XD *shuts up*


No, you may not shut up! you're on to something important here. It has the potential to bring the enjoyment and benefits of MYST to a lot of other people.

I'm currently collaborating on something with another member that will end up on the Hardsdisk MYST Pages. At this point I'm rather enjoying watching it mutate from my personal playground, as other personalities come in to play. You are welcome to use the resource to publish this project when it's done, if you like but in any event you may not shut up. If I can help in any way, you will let me know. :P
0

#7 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 22 June 2007 - 01:19 PM

Well, I think my first approach will be the most obvious and basic of needs: Writing up all the verbal speach. Once I get that done we'll see where we can get. *nod nod*
0

#8 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 22 June 2007 - 03:19 PM

View PostCAGrayWolf, on Jun 22 2007, 01:21 PM, said:

If you go to MYST Journals you will find (I believe) all the books and speeches from all the games transcribed there. Also, if you go over to the Guild of Greeters you can find ALL the journals from UrU and MOUL in one place. They also have the transcripts of all the speeches in the game.

I checked there, and there seemed to be a lot of books to click on but when I clicked "Atrus' Journals" It came up as a broken page. :P (side note: that is one CLICK heavy website. Crimny! @.@)
0

#9 User is offline   Mystress 

  • "Crazy" is a relative term...
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 3,487
  • Joined: 02-August 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Another world...
  • KI number:01792588

Posted 23 June 2007 - 12:34 PM

First and foremost, welcome to Mystcommunity! *throws a welcoming tomato* :P

Myst 3 has subtitles, and I think so do Myst 4 and 5... but that's not going to help here, is it? You can try The D'ni Desk Reference if you need transcripts for the speeches. It's a great resource.

I'm glad that somebody is finally trying to make Myst accessible for ALL people, not just the ones who can hear and see. :) My mom knows someone who is partially deaf, and she loves puzzles, so that would be really neat.

For the Mazerunner, you could make a map and tell your friend that the direction is important. I'm not sure I can help you with the music, though... :-/
0

#10 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 23 June 2007 - 06:08 PM

View PostMystress, on Jun 23 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

For the Mazerunner, you could make a map and tell your friend that the direction is important. I'm not sure I can help you with the music, though... :-/


All those tomatoes are going to come back to haunt you Mystress.

The Mazerunner is the main sticking point. Could the answer be as simple as captioning the QuickTime movies
Click to reveal hidden content
at the point where the tram pulls into each switch?
It's been a while since I looked at the original MYST files but I remember them as being fairly simple and easy to hack. It wouldn't work for realMYST of course.

I'm pretty sure the folks at Cyan wouldn't care if some substitute files were made available, provided it wasn't the whole game. They (Ryan Miller) had a wonderfully non-caring attitude when I showed them some preliminary pages for my site and I've, well, taken some liberties. :P
0

#11 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 24 June 2007 - 11:52 AM

I think, if we can get our hands on a simple programmer, we may be able to do something a little more intuitive.

Personally, I'd hate to have to have every combination of good choice and bad mapped out and preplanned (Insert words: BIG TASK). But, because the sounds are digitally made and always the same, I dont think it would be TOO hard for a programmer to devise a program that will read when an instance of that sound is played, it will do something (ex: pop up text). the honestly hard part would be is making the text show up without reducing the game window (as pop-ups often do).

You know, I'm not done with my college jsut yet, I could put a word into my professors and such. I think they would be interested in this sort of idea. I'm not a porgrammer myself, but I think there are some people in my major that might be, or some classes that might be willing to take it on.

But if we don't want to go to such an extravaganza, I'm still not sure how we can make it playable w/o either mapping out every thing, or giving away the answers. Personally, I tried to daraw a map, but the distances are not equal, so I screwed it up.

As for transcripts, I've got three done so far, I'll go take a look at that website Mystress posted and see if they have some. If not I'll keep plucking away.


Oh, and Mystress?

:P :) :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :bored: :) :( :( :D ;) :cool: :blush:

:blush: :boot:
0

#12 User is offline   Mystress 

  • "Crazy" is a relative term...
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 3,487
  • Joined: 02-August 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Another world...
  • KI number:01792588

Posted 24 June 2007 - 02:28 PM

:P
:)
:twitch:
0

#13 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 24 June 2007 - 02:41 PM

Okay, editing the Mazerunner movies may be a dead-end or at least hopelessly complicated.

After examining the movies (Myst/Myst Graphics/Selenitic) on my Mac version disc,
Click to reveal hidden content
I see that the sounds aren't included in the movies which sometimes have to work in multiple places. The sounds are probably inserted by whatever card plays the movie, at its completion. This would make it difficult to insert some text in or over the movies themselves, unless you could duplicate all of the necessary movies, caption them and reprogram the cards to play the specific individual movies, instead of the current multi-purpose ones.
Attached Image: runner1.jpg
Image from realMYST


The other problem is, you can't (or at least I can't) open or modify the stacks or cards using a standard version of HyperCard in the Classic Mac OS but I'm not very experienced with HyperCard.

Click to reveal hidden content
When I first played MYST, it took me hours to realize that I was being given the directions in this puzzle. I would hate to have to give somebody a map to this special part of the game and spoil it, just because the audio clues aren't available to them.
It doesn't seem to be a reasonable option.

Anybody else have any ideas? Would it hurt to ask Cyan for advice? Someone there must have at least thought about this at some time. If not,
Click to reveal hidden content
lets proceed with the listening software route and see who knows what's available or can be adapted. It may be that that option would work with all of the incarnations of the original game, including the similar sound directions in Mechanical.


*frustrated, he kicks the same squee and again feels badly about it. He offers it a nectarine. This time, the squee bites his finger off and runs away with it, inflating its cheek bladders, turning occasionally to look behind and cooing gleefully with its mouth full of the prized digit*
0

#14 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 25 June 2007 - 12:58 AM

View Postolddude, on Jun 24 2007, 03:41 PM, said:

The other problem is, you can't (or at least I can't) open or modify the stacks or cards using a standard version of HyperCard in the Classic Mac OS but I'm not very experienced with HyperCard.

Click to reveal hidden content
When I first played MYST, it took me hours to realize that I was being given the directions in this puzzle. I would hate to have to give somebody a map to this special part of the game and spoil it, just because the audio clues aren't available to them.
It doesn't seem to be a reasonable option.

Anybody else have any ideas? Would it hurt to ask Cyan for advice? Someone there must have at least thought about this at some time. If not,
Click to reveal hidden content
lets proceed with the listening software route and see who knows what's available or can be adapted. It may be that that option would work with all of the incarnations of the original game, including the similar sound directions in Mechanical.


*frustrated, he kicks the same squee and again feels badly about it. He offers it a nectarine. This time, the squee bites his finger off and runs away with it, inflating its cheek bladders, turning occasionally to look behind and cooing gleefully with its mouth full of the prized digit*


As you described your first time that is exactly why I dont want to give out the answer.
Click to reveal hidden content
I did the same thing before I found out that the Mechanical Island teaches you the sounds so I should have gone there first. But then, I cheated back then.. when Iw as in fifth grade... I stole my brother's mechanical age notes >_:P)


The website that Mystress linked seems to have decent transcripts of what is spoken in the game, but again, we need to figure out when to trigger such text and how? Here's where I wish I was a programmer so that I had a clue. But for now I will forward this page to some professors of mine. They might have an idea or know who else might have an idea.

Other question: I know you're working on a mac, but does your friend have one too? IF programming is needed we would need to know what platform we'll be doing this on.



As for YOU Mystress.....
SLINKY OF DOOM!!
Posted Image

Followed by:
Spinning bunny head of doom!!
Posted Image

And lastly:
COW OF DOOM!!!!
Posted Image
0

#15 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 25 June 2007 - 07:40 AM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jun 25 2007, 02:58 AM, said:

Other question: I know you're working on a mac, but does your friend have one too? IF programming is needed we would need to know what platform we'll be doing this on.

If you mean my current co-creator on the MYST Pages, they're using a Windows PC. I will PM you about that.

I'm not a programmer but I have created and modified (added sections and frames) QuickTime movies in the past. I'm also pretty well versed in both Photoshop and Gimp. My main workhorse Mac, right now is a G4 mini booting from an external 160 GB Firewire drive. It will run Classic but won't boot into Classic so I have a beige G3 OS 9 Mac for any Classic apps that won't work on the mini. I also have a 1.33 GHz AMD Windows XP PC just to keep the bases covered. I rarely use it for anything other than getting screen shots from URU CC, these days, but it's starting to come in handy now that I'm working with a PC person.
0

#16 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 25 June 2007 - 02:24 PM

I hacked one of the Selenitic movies just for fun. It actually took me longer to upload it than to hack it.

If it brings the old '60s Batman series to mind, you may be as old as I am.

For any other dial-up users, it's about 1.5 MB

Click here
0

#17 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 26 June 2007 - 05:59 PM

Found this while I was having fun with google image search:

http://goofedy.homes...les/rMmaze1.jpg
0

#18 User is offline   Vexis Larseker 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 265
  • Joined: 30-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 26 June 2007 - 07:51 PM

That map matches up to the one I made while solving the original except my map has only one SW segment instead of the two shown on this map. Mine could be wrong though.
0

#19 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 27 June 2007 - 03:28 AM

Click to reveal hidden content
I DO notice that the directional sounds seem to be... off... they put up 'chirp' for going "SW", and we all knwo that takes TWO sounds, not one.

0

#20 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 27 June 2007 - 09:39 AM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jun 27 2007, 05:28 AM, said:

Click to reveal hidden content
I DO notice that the directional sounds seem to be... off... they put up 'chirp' for going "SW", and we all knwo that takes TWO sounds, not one.

Yes. That's right.

I think that the spoiler tags are getting a little tiresome at this point (for me anyway) so I'm giving fair warning. I'm not going to use them in this thread anymore :)

If you haven't finished MYST, you probably don't have much to contribute to this discussion so hie thee off and play the game, then rejoin us when you have. (Pay no attention to that Mystress behind the curtain, I am a curmudgeon!)

Let the spoilers begin!:

Is it necessary to come up with words that simulate the sounds, since "Ding" or "Squish" or whatever, don't really have any descriptive value if you can't hear? would some simple symbols work better for a visual cue? Circle for North, Triangle for East, Circle combined with Star for NW, etc. I suppose you could use D'ni characters too but they should not indicate directions in D'ni.

As a side note, I did email Ryan Miller and he got back to me. He had never heard of any MYST for the Deaf projects. I promised to keep him posted and told him that there would undoubtedly be some questions regarding copyright and distribution in the future.

It may or may not be useful to point out that you can travel the whole maze in fly mode (realMYST only) without bothering with the tram/runner. The directional sounds won't be available if you do this but it makes crossing over to view another track or switch quite easy. You can get lost in the fog. Happens to me all the time. :P
0

#21 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 27 June 2007 - 02:18 PM

View Postolddude, on Jun 27 2007, 10:39 AM, said:

Is it necessary to come up with words that simulate the sounds, since "Ding" or "Squish" or whatever, don't really have any descriptive value if you can't hear? would some simple symbols work better for a visual cue? Circle for North, Triangle for East, Circle combined with Star for NW, etc. I suppose you could use D'ni characters too but they should not indicate directions in D'ni.

As a side note, I did email Ryan Miller and he got back to me. He had never heard of any MYST for the Deaf projects. I promised to keep him posted and told him that there would undoubtedly be some questions regarding copyright and distribution in the future.

It may or may not be useful to point out that you can travel the whole maze in fly mode (realMYST only) without bothering with the tram/runner. The directional sounds won't be available if you do this but it makes crossing over to view another track or switch quite easy. You can get lost in the fog. Happens to me all the time. :P


Your right, an image or icon would work better as in indicator of the sound, so we then need to figure out an image?

My ideas:
South -- something with a metal bucket. I swear it sounds like something going klunk in a metal bucket!! *twitch*
East -- Personally I get a sort of 'mechanical spring' idea from it. Perhaps a spring then?
North -- I swear that ping hurts your ears after a while... hmm... perhaps the symbol for that might be a "!" with some lines comming outta the top?
West -- To me it sounds like a mechanical version of a bird's chirping. I would think this symbol (because if it's multiple 'repetition' in it) needs something with a multiple in it, like a grouping of circles or something.

-----------------------

For those out of the loop (cuz Old Dude and I got to discussing this in messages) here's an update of things:

We want to get the core sounds first:
---The direction sounds for the Maze Runner and fortress rotation.
---The entire slider's worth of sounds on the Selenitic door lock (this will include all the Above ground Selenitic sounds).
---The sound of the tower rotatitng when you use the map on Myst (otherwise you have no clue it did something bigger).
---The sound of the tree elevator rizing and falling when using the boiler in the cabin on Myst Island (again because you dont know it's doing something bigger).
---The sound of the ship rizing at the initial dock (again, same reason)
---The Thunk of resetting the breakers on the wire to the space ship (though you could reset both I supose).
---Possibly the sound of flowign water in Channelwood (though you CAN do it by just keeping an eye your valves)
---If you have any other core sounds we need, let us know!! :)

Other sounds next:
--- Ambient. The wind outside the library, the sound of water at beaches, birds and frogs at Channelwood, etc etc.
---Perhaps sounds of things working, like machines, levers, etc.

Lastly:
-- Interpretation of the music. I hav eno idea right now how to do this, and it would be an extreemly difficult project.

-----------------
Other thought I have right now:
For the tower rotation and the Tree elevator... why not shake the screen? That would be ideal woudnt it?


_~*~_~*~_~*~_~*~_~*~_~*~_~*~_
EDIT/UPDATE:

Here's an idea that came to me from a friend. Colors. And we can use it in at LEAST two places.

Place 1: Directional sounds.
Say North = red; East = blue; South = Yellow; West = grey. Now to make it equal to a listeners version of hearing two SOUNDS at once, we (you guessit probably) MIX colors! so: SE = green; SW = dark yellow/brown; NW = dark red/maroon; NE = purple.

Now, I understand that MOST of these colors are redilly identifiable, however, we can choose more... unique colors that when mixed you may have to look twice and think (just like when people had to play the sound in the maze runner a few times to figure out what two sounds are overlapped). But for now, I really like this color idea!

Place 2: The Rocket Ship Keyboard.

Say we take a spectrum and span it across the entire keyboard (bottom note = deep red, while top note = deep violet -- or vice versa) Now, you wont SEE the colors till you hit the key and the key will glow that color. The reason I say that the spectrup should cross the entire keyboard instead of say, repeat it for each octave is because getting the right note (not the flat of it or the sharp of it) to match on the slider is a pain. So we want NO easy ways out here, we want equivalents so slight shade changes will be a visual equivalent of slight tone changes. The little lights on the sliders can then change color as they slide up.

Other new idea:
For the parts where your rotating the tower and raising or lowering the tree elevator, The simplest (and most fitting) way to do that would be to (you prolly guessed this too) shake the screen. that's right, the tower rotates? Have a kinda 'vibration' shake to it. Elevator goes up? A slight shiver before a sudden jolt and settle down. Elevator go down? A sudden (lesser) jolt, but no pre-shudder and less settle down time.

Downfall: As ideal as these ideas would be, choosing these would mean we'd actually be deciding to re-create/re-program the game almost completely. (unless someone knows otherwise).
0

#22 User is offline   olddude 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 19-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upstate New York USA

Posted 28 June 2007 - 07:33 AM

Here's a question for somebody who might be versed in tech gadgetry.

Is there any kid of device, designed for deaf people or otherwise that can take an audio output and transform it into a vibration, kind of like a cell phone set to vibrate?

This might be a transducer (piezo-electric) or some kind of mechanical thing that takes the audio and translates it into a heavy vibration, maybe at a lower frequency than the original sound.

If a device like this, were placed next to the skin, it could alert a player to non-musical sounds. It should be easy to remove the music from the game and not have that source of confusion.

It wouldn't help, at least I don't think it would, with the directional sounds but it would let you know they were there and might make a visual indicator more effective.
0

#23 User is offline   JoanRC 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: 14-March 07

Posted 28 June 2007 - 08:40 AM

An archive of transcripst can be found at http://www.dpwr.net/....php?showcat=54.

I am neither deaf nor tone deaf; but, I do have short term memory difficulties. This makes all of the sound puzzles in Myst games difficult for me. As an example, in the interval between playing the note on the organ, crossing the floor in the spaceship, and entering the note into the machine, I have forgotten what the note sounded like. I got lucky the first time I tried this and managed to get it right after three tries, but have never been able to nail it since then.

Many of these puzzles can be done through trial and error once you have figured out what needs to be done.

- the Channelwood elevator. If you stand there long enough you notice that the pattern in the tree bark cracks change. This should clue you in to the fact that the tree is moving. (I had originally installed this on a computer with no sound card.)

- the fortress. manipulate the controls, run out to the door to see if you have moved the building. repeat as needed.

- I solved the Channelwood water problems solely and entirely by keeping track of the valves indicating the direction of water flow.

- the rising of the ship at the dock. As soon as you have solved the puzzle, the small ship in the fountain should indicate what has happened.

- the Mazerunner. I totally cheated. I used a very explicit walkthrough. Google "Myst" and "walkthrough" and read the intro to make sure it is not just hints. If your friend goes ahead with the game and gets stuck here, I still have my notes from this (for Myst, not realMyst).

- the slider on the door in Selenic. For me, that was a combination of luck and walkthrough assistance.

For totally deaf people, I would suggest correlating the noise with a pop-up visual clue, as previously suggested in this thread.

As for mood music, I think the tone is set by many of the visual clues. Achenar's appearance in the book panel quite clearly indicates that the man is off his rocker, and just look at the appurtenances in his living quarters! Sirrus is just a little bit too smooth, too suave for me too trust; and the liquor bottles in his rooms reinforces my suspicions.

Old Bat,

Once I was young and foolish, now I'm old and stupid.
0

#24 User is offline   Serrinatta 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Joined: 21-June 07
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Missing

Posted 28 June 2007 - 12:10 PM

Hmmm, Interesting. I ttend to agree with the idea of leaving Channelwood alone when it comes to the water pipes as I think not too many people knew to track the water via sound anyway.

Thank you for the archive, we'll bookmark it with the other one we have (it's always good to compare transcripts to minimize possible 'interpretation writing'. For isntance: when I was trying to write my own I realized I had written "I shouldn't jump to conclusions" for Atrus' fore-chambor message, when, in fact, it was "I shouldn't leap to conclusions". Not to mention taht people hear different things through the static of the books. So comparasins are wonderful!)

Thought he channelwood elevator you could see rising/lowering if you were standing next to it, how would you know when you're inside the cabin cranking that wheel? I'm not trying to ocntradict your personal experience, but I would like to know how you figured out the connection. :P I love examples on how people's minds work in these games so we better understand how things will be interpreted.

I"m thiniking to still keep some sort of alternative to the audio clues for the Fortress, and there is an explination behind this.

My explination is this: We want equvalent play. not one that is harder OR easier for those who are Deaf. Deaf players should be able to get the same frequency of 'hint' style information in that game as any hearing person would, this does mean conversion of things that we COULD get by without. Just because we could get by without sound indicators in Mechanical Age doesn't mean we should force Deaf players to have no choice BUT to use trial and error. :) that just wouldn't be fair.
0

#25 User is offline   JoanRC 

  • rov nee (new person)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: 14-March 07

Posted 29 June 2007 - 09:18 AM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jun 28 2007, 12:10 PM, said:

<snipped for brevity>
Thought he channelwood elevator you could see rising/lowering if you were standing next to it, how would you know when you're inside the cabin cranking that wheel? I'm not trying to ocntradict your personal experience, but I would like to know how you figured out the connection. :P I love examples on how people's minds work in these games so we better understand how things will be interpreted.

I"m thiniking to still keep some sort of alternative to the audio clues for the Fortress, and there is an explination behind this.

<snipped for brevity>


When cranking the wheel all the way up seemed to have no effect, I wandered off and did something else. When I came back, I decided to crank the wheel all the way back down. Then I wandered off to stare at the tree again, and it shuddered. So I looked up. Way, way at the top there seemed to be a dark spot on the tree that seemed to be a tiny, tiny bit lower than it was the last time I looked. Not sure whether I was imagining things, I stared at it some more and the tree shuddered again. This time the blob moved with the tree, appeared darker, and took on a definitely rectangular shape. So, I figured it must be a door. Then I just waited for it to come down.

So, then I started thinking I was really clever, and solved the water pipe problem in Channelwood, only to get stymied by the elevator. I assumed that the door would close when you hit the lever, as the elevator did on Janin in Myst III Exile, and that then the elevator would rise. It did not. After hitting the Any Key with a larger and larger succession of hammers -- never use force, always use a larger sledge hammer -- I wandered off and played Riven for the 4th or 5th time. Then I felt clever again and came back and finished Channelwood.

At the beginning of this thread, someone mentioned a deaf friend who might be interested in realMyst and wondered if this were feasible. Based on my experience with Myst, I would say it is feasible up to the Selenic Age (I have no experience with Rime as I did not play realMyst) depending on how persistent the individual might be. Of course, if a hearing person were to persuade a deaf person to give Myst a try, he or she has an obligation to stand ready to give assistance whould the experience turn out to be more difficult than we had hoped.

Of course, the visual clues mentioned in this thread would eliminate a lot of the trial and error without spoiling the game; but, those clues do not as yet exist beyond the confines of our imagination.

I'm voting for the rainbow for the organ puzzle in the spaceship, symbols for the slider puzzle on the door, and that vibrator thingy for the mazerunner.

--------------

Old Bat sez: Once I was young and foolish. Now I am old and stupid.
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2


Fast Reply

  

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users