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Myst for the Deaf Transcriptions of speech and the Selenetic Age

#26 User is offline   Mystress 

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 09:34 AM

View Postolddude, on Jun 25 2007, 02:24 PM, said:

I hacked one of the Selenitic movies just for fun. It actually took me longer to upload it than to hack it.

If it brings the old '60s Batman series to mind, you may be as old as I am.

For any other dial-up users, it's about 1.5 MB

Click here


Olddude, the Quicktime file appears to be broken.

*steals Serrinatta's slinky of doom and runs off with it*

BTW, Serrinatta, I like the color idea - but the shaking screen might make your friend seasick if s/he is not used to it in games...
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#27 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 10:28 AM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jun 28 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

Thought he channelwood elevator you could see rising/lowering if you were standing next to it, how would you know when you're inside the cabin cranking that wheel? I'm not trying to ocntradict your personal experience, but I would like to know how you figured out the connection. :) I love examples on how people's minds work in these games so we better understand how things will be interpreted.

Am I the only one who thought he was hearing a pressure valve releasing with the wheel turned all the way up? I initially thought the object of the puzzle must be to keep the pressure in the center of the gauge, which you can do in the original version but when you leave and come back, it's down again. I don't remember how I eventually figured out what the sound really meant but it probably had something to do with noticing tree growth.

Quote

I"m thiniking to still keep some sort of alternative to the audio clues for the Fortress, and there is an explination behind this.

My explination is this: We want equvalent play. not one that is harder OR easier for those who are Deaf. Deaf players should be able to get the same frequency of 'hint' style information in that game as any hearing person would, this does mean conversion of things that we COULD get by without. Just because we could get by without sound indicators in Mechanical Age doesn't mean we should force Deaf players to have no choice BUT to use trial and error. :twitch: that just wouldn't be fair.

I agree. The experience and difficulty should be similar to what a hearing person is presented with.

View PostMystress, on Jun 29 2007, 11:34 AM, said:

Olddude, the Quicktime file appears to be broken.


Works fine on my Mac Mystress. Oh, that's right, you have a PC. :P

It may be a problem with the format of the additional frames I quickly inserted into the movie. You should be seeing the stock movie of the track moving in front of the runner's window with the word "Thunk" appearing briefly at the end. It's not like you're missing something important if you can't see it.
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#28 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:13 PM

View PostJoanRC, on Jun 29 2007, 10:18 AM, said:

Of course, the visual clues mentioned in this thread would eliminate a lot of the trial and error without spoiling the game; but, those clues do not as yet exist beyond the confines of our imagination.

I'm voting for the rainbow for the organ puzzle in the spaceship, symbols for the slider puzzle on the door, and that vibrator thingy for the mazerunner.


Ok so we've got some voted on options here. *nod nod* good. :) Since we seem to have three (or four?) of us working on this at the moment, should we make final decisions on what where' going to do for each? You know, everyone vote?

I agree wtih your first two votes, but I'm only a little skeptical on the vibration thing for the maze runner (how do we define each direction and overlap vibrations? Do we want to insist that each Deaf player has to buy an accessory? Again this is just my thinking and in now way says the idea doesnt have merit. Because it definately does.) so I'm gunna have to vote colors again for that one.

Other votes? Old Dude? Mystress? Random people who are haunting this thread and have yet to peep?


---------
The movie doesn't work for you mystress? Works fine for me o.O

Are you missing a plug in?

MY SLINKY!! (oh who cares, it used to be a gif of one jumping side to side till I edited it anyway. So really it's only mine in edit. >_>)

Also, for the shaking.... it's actually not MY friend... or anyone who seems to be still around here actually. *once mistook the Deaf friend for being Old Dude's friend*

It seems the post owner has gone and we're just here for the mental exersize of it. :twitch:

--------

Side note:
Does anyone know if those quicktime files (the movies) work in flash? If so I might make a 'mock up' of the mazerunner scene, though, I fear it may become so massive we may not be able to share it :P

But this way we could be testing some maze runner ideas via flash. But then I supose I could make a mock up of the space ship too. Hmmm.... I may need to hone my flash skills.... *forgets how to make flahs 'remember' things* hmmm....
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#29 User is offline   Kahmeh 

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Posted 30 June 2007 - 10:18 PM

I have played the game without sound before too, and it's tricky but it can be done. Trial and error works, and also cheating. I did a lot of cheating. :) But obviously that's not the purpose of this thread, so.... Y'all have come up with some really good ideas. Rainbow for the organ, definitely good.

The sliders on the door, though... symbols for that would get a little too complicated, I think. There's too many to remember easily... but it could work. It would at least be easier than trying to remember the sounds, which drove me insane. I'd use symbols for the directional clues in the mazerunner, though. The vibration idea seems way too awkward and unnecessarily complicated. Colors....eh, just doesn't seem to fit, for me. I associate color clue puzzles with Riven, so I wouldn't use them in Myst unless it was an obvious correlation like rainbow = scale.

Actually, I have a specific symbol idea for the mazerunner. What about using arrows?

I had something else to add, what was it? :P OH! Right. You were talking about transcriptions and such... has anyone checked Kehrin's D'ni Desk Reference? She has like, everything, or did last I checked.
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#30 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 10:34 PM

View PostLeenay, on Jun 30 2007, 11:18 PM, said:

I have played the game without sound before too, and it's tricky but it can be done. Trial and error works, and also cheating. I did a lot of cheating. :twitch: But obviously that's not the purpose of this thread, so.... Y'all have come up with some really good ideas. Rainbow for the organ, definitely good.

The sliders on the door, though... symbols for that would get a little too complicated, I think. There's too many to remember easily... but it could work. It would at least be easier than trying to remember the sounds, which drove me insane. I'd use symbols for the directional clues in the mazerunner, though. The vibration idea seems way too awkward and unnecessarily complicated. Colors....eh, just doesn't seem to fit, for me. I associate color clue puzzles with Riven, so I wouldn't use them in Myst unless it was an obvious correlation like rainbow = scale.

Actually, I have a specific symbol idea for the mazerunner. What about using arrows?

I had something else to add, what was it? :P OH! Right. You were talking about transcriptions and such... has anyone checked Kehrin's D'ni Desk Reference? She has like, everything, or did last I checked.


I believe we got the D'ni Desk Reference on our list, but if not we'll definately add it. :)

As for arrows, that's a little too, well, obvious isnt it? I remember it being hard to remember which sound meant what direction, and having to distinguish overlapping sounds was also hard. Arrows are nice, but I think they give it away too easilly compared to the audio.

What about symbols that relate back to Myst Island itself? Since there are four ages to visit, there are four points the Tower Rotation stops at.... so like... some simplified version of the clock tower would be "West" (as it's the furthest west 'hint' on the tower rotation map), Rocket Ship would be North, Boat = South and gear = East. That way, if we simplify the symbols really well, overlapping them would make you look twice, just like having to listen twice, but not be too hard to figure out. And the fact that we're using references to things already present in the game it is therefore a BIT more related to the game itself? I could mock up some preliminary ideas for symbols of the four if this sounds like a good idea.
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#31 User is offline   Kahmeh 

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 01:09 AM

Hmmm I dunno... I kind of feel like that might be a little too difficult. The arrows are simple, yeah, but I guess I was thinking that it would be tricky enough because it wouldn't be immediately obvious what they stood for.

Like, say an up arrow for north, down arrow for south, left arrow for west, right arrow for east. If one track was labeled with a left arrow, that wouldn't necessarily mean that the track is one that loops around to the left. It means it takes you more overall west in the maze, so depending on what your heading was, it could even loop to the right instead, or go straight ahead like most of them do.

But you could be right...I dunno, the mazerunner is generally considered to be one of the most, if not the most difficult puzzle in Myst, so I guess if it's super hard that would be pretty much par for the course. But the symbols relating back to Myst Island seems a little counterintuitive to me.
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#32 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 07:30 AM

I haven't deserted the thread, just dealing with life for a little while (I like to think I have one, from time to time).

I was just brainstorming about the vibration device thing. I wanted to know what might be available as plug-in auxiliary help and the cost of any device(s) that were either on the market or could be built. I agree, ideally, the hacks should be available as a software update or as files with simple directions about how to use them. I just didn't want to rule out some wonderful inexpensive electro-mechanical device, if one existed. I Googled for one and found some interesting patents for such devices but nothing that would solve the problems outright or be inexpensive. I think brainstorming is important in a situation like this, just to prevent a narrow focus on something that can end up not panning out.

I think if I were deaf, I'd be pretty miffed if somebody suggested making this game easier for me because I couldn't hear. If I wanted to play it, it would be because I wanted the same experience everybody else was getting. For this reason, I'm totally opposed to building additional clues (arrows and whatnot) into the game. I think the non-specific sounds need to be replaced with equally non-specific visual inserts. Since the original sounds don't tie in with objects we have seen (AFAIK) elsewhere in the game, I think the symbols or words that replace them should not either. I like the idea of having the visual insert relate to the sound, bell, metal bucket and so-forth. This may be challenging for some sounds like the ones I call dureep and squissh.

As for the organ puzzle. That's tricky since you have to match a note to a note (or remember an odd melody). I'm not sure there is any way to replicate this experience for a deaf person. The only way to do it may be to simply have the note name come up on the screen for each note that's being played for every key on the organ and every slider position ("D", "A#", etc.) I don't see a need to come up with separate symbols for note names that already exist (I don't think Beethoven did either).

Can anyone with skills, who has been following this thread, give us an idea of how difficult it might be to hack these things into the game? How do we get into the stacks, etc.

Also, I've been assuming that we're talking about making changes to the original MYST (and maybe Masterpiece) and not realMYST which would be extremely difficult to modify in the ways we have been discussing. Correct?
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#33 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 11:40 AM

View Postolddude, on Jul 2 2007, 08:30 AM, said:

As for the organ puzzle. That's tricky since you have to match a note to a note (or remember an odd melody). I'm not sure there is any way to replicate this experience for a deaf person. The only way to do it may be to simply have the note name come up on the screen for each note that's being played for every key on the organ and every slider position ("D", "A#", etc.) I don't see a need to come up with separate symbols for note names that already exist (I don't think Beethoven did either).

Can anyone with skills, who has been following this thread, give us an idea of how difficult it might be to hack these things into the game? How do we get into the stacks, etc.

Also, I've been assuming that we're talking about making changes to the original MYST (and maybe Masterpiece) and not realMYST which would be extremely difficult to modify in the ways we have been discussing. Correct?


I dunno about telling them what note you're playing because if it tells you the note then you go to the slider you just have to match what you read and that is a cakewalk. Audio notes are tougher than reading notes. I had to turn around three times to figure out some notes to see if they were matching and I take choir! *tomatoes self* :P I mean, sharps and flats of a note gets rough sometimes. Or when you hear the slider slide up you forget the audio 'imprint' that you had of the note you're looking for and have to go back to check. That's why I was trying to figure out something that would be equally hard to distinguish.

As for Leenay's arrows, you're still looking at, say, a 'map and compas'. The arrows are the map (it jsut happens to change at each intersection) and the direction on the Maze Runner is your 'compas' telling you what direction your currently facing. It is true that it's harder than say arrows that actually physically point you the right way (which, strangely, I knew you meant the map and compas style and not this when you first mentioned it o.O). But 'map and compas' still seems too easy (or have I been navagator for too many road trips?)

Ok so the visual reference to Myst Island is out then for symbolism, since, Old Dude is right, the sounds (as far as we know) have no correlation to anything within the game. I wonder, though, if the sounds were something that was derived from the D'ni culture? If it's true, perhaps we should research what the D'ni use as symbols for North, South, East, West?

Also, we still need to think of the Fortress Rotation. Not that I'm saying it will be different from the Maze runner (as we all know it shouldnt) but where the hey are we gunna put these symbols on those two systems? (the simulator and the actual console). There isnt much give room, and there isnt a good place to present it, like on the maze runner (I was thinking of making the speaker a screen instead of a speaker).

Other thoughts: I know we've been working on Myst here a lot and trying to see if no one else has come up with a Deaf version, but what about other games? We could research other games that were either made available to the Deaf or made specifically for the Deaf. We may get inspiration from those games to better figure out our rough areas.

For Old Dude: Yeah, for now I'd like us to just stick to original/masterpiece of Myst. Mostly because that's all we've been talking about (and real is too freaking expencive for me to go out and quick play so I know what Ryme is about so I can put in my two cents. *tomatoes self again* :) )

Also for Old Dude: I know how life gets in the way. I'm helping clean out and redo the room for my new niece's nursery. 3 weeks to the due date!! *plots on how to spoil the child* (I'm gunna be an auntie! *passes out*)
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#34 User is offline   Kahmeh 

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 11:59 AM

View Postolddude, on Jul 2 2007, 08:30 AM, said:

I think if I were deaf, I'd be pretty miffed if somebody suggested making this game easier for me because I couldn't hear. If I wanted to play it, it would be because I wanted the same experience everybody else was getting. For this reason, I'm totally opposed to building additional clues (arrows and whatnot) into the game. I think the non-specific sounds need to be replaced with equally non-specific visual inserts. Since the original sounds don't tie in with objects we have seen (AFAIK) elsewhere in the game, I think the symbols or words that replace them should not either. I like the idea of having the visual insert relate to the sound, bell, metal bucket and so-forth. This may be challenging for some sounds like the ones I call dureep and squissh.


I totally agree that we shouldn't be making the game easier; I didn't intend to imply that at all. As I said, I cheat, because the exploration aspect of the game is more important to me than the puzzle solving, so whenever a puzzle takes me too long, it annoys me and ruins my enjoyment of the game. But I know it's different for a lot of people and they really enjoy the challenge of solving the puzzles, so I agree that we should try to make them equivalent.

The arrows probably are not a good idea--it was just a symbol suggestion, but it would probably be too simple. Images of things that make the sounds would probably work, but like you said, some of them would be difficult to choose an image for. The dureep one almost sounds like a mechanical frog to me, and the squissh one... maybe a buzzer of some sort? but still, no idea about an image for that.

As for the organ, I agree with Serrinatta on that--using the note names would be far too easy. I also had to go back and forth many times to make sure that I had the correct note, because I (and I think most people) lose that sound memory imprint a lot quicker than a visual cue--which is precisely what makes this particular premise so difficult. The puzzles mostly consist of hearing a sound in one place and matching it in another. This is much more difficult to do with sounds than images or symbols. Using visual clues instead of auditory ones, to me, automatically makes each puzzle much easier. So in order to make them equivalent, I'd almost think the visual clues would need to be much harder. Am I making sense? :P
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#35 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 10:54 AM

View PostLeenay, on Jul 2 2007, 01:59 PM, said:

As for the organ, I agree with Serrinatta on that--using the note names would be far too easy. I also had to go back and forth many times to make sure that I had the correct note, because I (and I think most people) lose that sound memory imprint a lot quicker than a visual cue--which is precisely what makes this particular premise so difficult. The puzzles mostly consist of hearing a sound in one place and matching it in another. This is much more difficult to do with sounds than images or symbols. Using visual clues instead of auditory ones, to me, automatically makes each puzzle much easier. So in order to make them equivalent, I'd almost think the visual clues would need to be much harder. Am I making sense? :P

Yes, I think so. The trick is going to be what the visual clues will consist of and how is a visual clue is different from just showing the note? Ideally the whole puzzle should be different (no keyboard or tune) and designed in a way that sound isn't important. That would complicate things considerably but this puzzle is extremely difficult to translate into a silent version since the whole thing is based on your ability to hear and reproduce what you have heard.

I had a few spare minutes yesterday, so I played some of MYST with the sound off. The game is full of sounds that alert you to the results of your actions. If you get something right, you hear generators starting, water running, motors running and probably many dozens of other audio confirmations (there are a lot of sounds in the game). Since a deaf person doesn't normally hear these things in life, it may not seem important, but it's possible to feel water running in a pipe, the vibration from a generator or motor etc. I'm really hoping that someone who can't hear will join this discussion at some point and let us know how important these lesser indicators might be, as well as provide some input about the rest of it. I'm feeling a little out of my sphere at this point.

Serrinatta, if you would like to write a small synopsis of the ground we have (and haven't) covered here, I'd be happy to put it on the MYST Pages with a link to this topic and a suggestion to interested parties to get on the MC board and join the discussion. I think we need help (I'm certain about it in my case :) ). We also need a game designer or programmer with experience in this medium, who can at least advise us on the feasibility of what we are proposing. If it's going to be overwhelmingly difficult or costly, if someone has to be hired, to hack these changes into the game, then discussing the details of the changes themselves has little value.

Let's find out if it can be done without getting a major grant first (maybe we should try to get one?), then let's find out if Cyan's legal department has any problems with the specific details of the proposed alterations to the game files when we know what kind of work will be involved. If there are no major roadblocks, then let's proceed and work on the appearance of the changes.

As fun as it is, I don't really see the point in hashing out the details of the changes at this point if there's going to be a major impediment to even getting started. If you don't agree, its just a suggestion and I'm open to alternate plans of attack. :twitch:
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#36 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 05:34 PM

What we've covered:

Locations of Transcriptions:
http://www.dnidesk.com/refindex.html
http://www.dpwr.net/....php?showcat=54

Major audio that needs to be converted in some way:
Mazerunner
Spaceship
Fortress Rotation
Selenitic Sounds

Minor audio that may need to be converted:
Fuse Switches
Tower Rotation
Tree Elevator
Surfacing Ship
Water Flow
Generators
Stoneship Pumps

Audio that is only an option to convert:
Ambient
Music

Ideas thus far:
Mazrunner:
--vibration accessory
--Symbolic representation
--Color representation
--Arrows
Fortress:
--See Mazerunner
Space Ship:
--Color Spectrum
--Written version of the note
Selenitic:
--Symbols
--Vibration accessory
Tower Rotation:
--shake screen
--Vibration Accessory
Tree Elevator:
--See tower rotation
Surfacing ship:
--Also see Tower rotation
Fuse Switches:
--cartoon sound brackets
Genorators:
--see Fuse Switches
Waterflow:
--none
Stoneship Pumps:
--none
Ambient:
--none
Music:
--non-clashing artwork


-------------

If I missed something let me know. I added the 'catoon sound brackets' just now because I had that idea comming in on making this post. Got the idea when playing the old Sims Delux game and saw a fire alarm going off but I was facing it's backside. It made brackets similar to these ("O" represents the fire alarm thing):

((( O )))

We could use this type of indicator to our advantage, ne?

As for reccomending resources: We could always ask a Technical College that teaches students to game design/program to impliment our project for us. lol. I've had some of my classes 'hijacked' by people who want to come in with a project idea (unfortunately, bcause the guy went into FOUR of my classes -- and probably more that I wasnt in -- not too many instructors wanted to do it because it was not offered ONLY to their class. So asking one class may help or hinder, I dont know.) Either way, approching it to instructors to use as a teaching tool would get it done for us for free. :) It will teach the students to work with 'customers' in that we're the customer and we're showing them what we want to create and they ahve to help us create it. Also, if it becomes a 'school' project, things about usage of the original game get a little easier and usually free as well. How I know this: Kinko's (I used to work there) will make one copy of ANY copywritten material so long as it's for educational use. "educational Use" is a great term to use as a tool, if we can get a school to think about using our pproject as an 'educational tool' then we can use that "educational Use" term to our advantage. :P

Other thoughts:
The more fleshed out something is, the better chance we have of it going over well with whoever we present it to; weather it be a programming instructor or someone who can give us a grant. So, working on this, even if we havnt found a way to produce it yet, may still be to our advantage. It may give us enough 'proof' that our project is feaseable and worth producing.
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#37 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 07:00 PM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jul 3 2007, 07:34 PM, said:

I added the 'catoon sound brackets' just now because I had that idea comming in on making this post. Got the idea when playing the old Sims Delux game and saw a fire alarm going off but I was facing it's backside. It made brackets similar to these ("O" represents the fire alarm thing):

((( O )))

We could use this type of indicator to our advantage, ne?

I like it.

Quote

As for reccomending resources: We could always ask a Technical College that teaches students to game design/program to impliment our project for us. lol. I've had some of my classes 'hijacked' by people who want to come in with a project idea (unfortunately, bcause the guy went into FOUR of my classes -- and probably more that I wasnt in -- not too many instructors wanted to do it because it was not offered ONLY to their class. So asking one class may help or hinder, I dont know.) Either way, approching it to instructors to use as a teaching tool would get it done for us for free. :twitch: It will teach the students to work with 'customers' in that we're the customer and we're showing them what we want to create and they ahve to help us create it. Also, if it becomes a 'school' project, things about usage of the original game get a little easier and usually free as well. How I know this: Kinko's (I used to work there) will make one copy of ANY copywritten material so long as it's for educational use. "educational Use" is a great term to use as a tool, if we can get a school to think about using our pproject as an 'educational tool' then we can use that "educational Use" term to our advantage. :twitch:

You've been holding out on us :) I really like this idea.

Quote

Other thoughts:
The more fleshed out something is, the better chance we have of it going over well with whoever we present it to; weather it be a programming instructor or someone who can give us a grant. So, working on this, even if we havnt found a way to produce it yet, may still be to our advantage. It may give us enough 'proof' that our project is feaseable and worth producing.

You are right, of course. I can help with movie edits, and image manipulation, as needed to produce any helpful visual aids. Frankly, I don't care who does the final implementation as long as it works and the quality of the additions is on a level with the original game.

Speaking of image manipulation, as it relates to the Book of F'ni, for my own safety, I'm glad that Mystress' hammer is fabric but I'm a little worried about the Slinky of Doom she stole from you earlier in this thread. :P
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#38 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 11:57 AM

Quote

You've been holding out on us :) I really like this idea.


I have not *whine* I made a small mention earlier... but jsut a small one.... I forget people arent from college or recently out of college like I am >_:twitch:)

Quote

You are right, of course. I can help with movie edits, and image manipulation, as needed to produce any helpful visual aids. Frankly, I don't care who does the final implementation as long as it works and the quality of the additions is on a level with the original game.

Speaking of image manipulation, as it relates to the Book of F'ni, for my own safety, I'm glad that Mystress' hammer is fabric but I'm a little worried about the Slinky of Doom she stole from you earlier in this thread. :P

Well, I was talking to my brother about how hard would it be to recreate Myst without sound. He, of course, asked why. When I told him he said that the Mac version would be the easiest because it may or may not use (depending on age) "espress forks" (or something with fork in it >_>) and that would be easier to work with *in over my head here*. If we had a programer, I would assume that we MAY be able to replace the audio files (as most -- not all -- are seperate) with image or movie or other files of our own. Now, with that replaced, we (theoretically) should then be able to change the programming from "Execute sound file named audio-blah" to "execute file named our-stuff" I'm not really sure if this works, but it works in my little brain!! :twitch:

Also, Old Dude, if you get a chance i wanna see what one of the Sirrus/Achenar movies look like. Is it possible that the static is an overlaying movie? If so, it woudl be golden to snag the underlying ones. Why? I was thinking with the subtitles of them talking we could put their sentances behind the static too, to give it a sort of, fuzzed out look just like when the audio breaks up?
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#39 User is offline   Kahmeh 

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 12:54 PM

I don't know anything about the programming, but it was my understanding that the original version of Myst is fairly easy to hack. However, you are talking about a seriously more significant project than what I'd had in mind. Recreating the entire game with a Deaf-oriented puzzle and playing structure is considerably different than merely enabling a non-hearing person to complete the game and solve the puzzles for themselves when they are unable to hear the sound clues. I was thinking something fairly simple such as substituting or overwriting visual cues for audio ones where needed - you're talking about a substantial rework of the entire game environment.

I'll leave you to it as that's a little too much for me. :P
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#40 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 06:14 PM

I"m thinking we could do it in either way. The good thing about Myst is that is was made in the early 90s. BEcause of technology making so many leaps, something like that, which took the Miller brothers so long to create, may be easier now.

I'm not going to say that we re-create all of the 3D imaging and structures as THAT would be a bit nuts, even in todays' standards, however, the programming aspect, I think, can be 'rebuilt' per se. Sometimes it IS just an alteration of switching out audio files for visual files, however, whatever is going to go and GET that file will expect an audio and get a visual and not know what they hey to do with it. So basically, we ARE going to have to do some messing around with the programming of the game itself.

Now, as far as I know, we've yet to find a person quite 'litterate' enough in programming language to make the alterations we're thinking of. However, that doesn't nessisarrilly mean we wont find someone. Who knows, perhase we find a lowly student and, because of their work with our project, get hired on to some big company and make buku-bucks! For now, all we are doing is planning. I want to lay down how we want everything to look and function, but that does not mean that we need to actually MAKE it yet. Just describe and/or visual aid what we want so that we're all clear on exactly what we're looking for to be programmed. Like mentioned earlier, teh more complete it is,t he easier it will go over with whomever we approach.
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#41 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 10:27 AM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jul 4 2007, 01:57 PM, said:

Well, I was talking to my brother about how hard would it be to recreate Myst without sound. He, of course, asked why. When I told him he said that the Mac version would be the easiest because it may or may not use (depending on age) "espress forks" (or something with fork in it >_>) and that would be easier to work with *in over my head here*. If we had a programer, I would assume that we MAY be able to replace the audio files (as most -- not all -- are seperate) with image or movie or other files of our own. Now, with that replaced, we (theoretically) should then be able to change the programming from "Execute sound file named audio-blah" to "execute file named our-stuff" I'm not really sure if this works, but it works in my little brain!! :P

He probably said "resource forks" and/or "data forks" and yes Apple provided a utility called ResEdit that allows you to edit and add to the resources in classic Mac files. I've used it to do some minor hacks but nothing like adding the missing parts to the HyperCard stacks in MYST, to make them modifiable. I have no doubt that the stacks can be made to open in HyperCard. I just don't know the specifics. You can use ResEdit to easily add things to the image files that are called up in various places in the game

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Also, Old Dude, if you get a chance i wanna see what one of the Sirrus/Achenar movies look like. Is it possible that the static is an overlaying movie? If so, it woudl be golden to snag the underlying ones. Why? I was thinking with the subtitles of them talking we could put their sentances behind the static too, to give it a sort of, fuzzed out look just like when the audio breaks up?

That kind of overlaying was done, AFAIK, only in the Rime age of realMYST. I was always annoyed by the fact that the brothers low-quality movies were just recycled and enlarged for realMYST from MYST, especially when they re-shot Atrus' book scenes but the Millers were older looking at that time and Robyn may not have been available. I'll double check the overlay thing though and if I'm wrong, I'll get you what you want. I think the kind of effect you want can be simulated anyway (maybe add some transparent texture into the text layer in places) and I do like the idea.
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#42 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 10:40 AM

View Postolddude, on Jul 5 2007, 11:27 AM, said:

That kind of overlaying was done, AFAIK, only in the Rime age of realMYST. I was always annoyed by the fact that the brothers low-quality movies were just recycled and enlarged for realMYST from MYST, especially when they re-shot Atrus' book scenes but the Millers were older looking at that time and Robyn may not have been available. I'll double check the overlay thing though and if I'm wrong, I'll get you what you want. I think the kind of effect you want can be simulated anyway (maybe add some transparent texture into the text layer in places) and I do like the idea.

Ahh okk. Yeah, I want to put in these subtitles as bet we can. Subtitles are such a pain to put in something because it sort of detracts from the reality of being IN the game. So, yeah, the idea was to integrate them more in some way. I dunno what to do with Atrus though. Lucky stiff has no static.

Resource Forks... yes.. that's it. I still hae no clue, but we have a name for them! *Stands like a proud idiot* lol.

Also, I'm gunna make a screen shot of the Space ship piano and see if I can make a 'fake' of it in HTML with our spectrum idea.
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#43 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 11:49 AM

The preliminary project page is up. I hope it brings some good traffic this way.

Serrinatta is coordinating the way this page develops. If you have any suggestions about it, and for some reason don't want to discuss them here, you may alternatively send her a personal message.
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#44 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 05:07 PM

Ok, I've got part of the piano done (not ready to show yet as it's still in pieces everywhere across my desktop... litterally) But here is the 36 color spectrum I'm using. The keyboard has 36 keys, so this will work well:

http://realcolorwhee...jpgchartssm.htm

Right now I've got 18 keys colored in psd files, 18 keys to go, and swatches of the spectrum (starting at color number 7) into a psd file as well, for easy color picking. From there should I attempt to make the paino as a visual gif that will jsut go thorugh the differnt colors? Or do you guys want an interactive sample and I make it either HTML or Flash? I'd have to look it up again on how o do either of those, but I know it's do-able. (the hard part was cutting out all those keys! @.@)
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#45 User is offline   JoanRC 

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:04 PM

Olddude mentioned hearing a sound which he interpreted as steam escaping when he cranked the boiler in the cabin all the way up. The very last time I played Myst, about 3 weeks ago, I noticed a very tiny puff of steam appear in the picture of the tree in the cabin. I had played Myst 3 or 4 times without noticing this, and each time I had assumed that the entity on the left of the boiler was a picture, and not a window, because the tree elevator is in the middle of a forest, yet none of the trees around the elevator appear in the picture. However, when I saw the puff of steam, I reconsidered my assumption about this.

The puff is very, very tiny, and easily missed. As, I say, I had not noticed it the first three or four times I played Myst.

It appeared after I had cranked the boiler all the way up, which correlates with what Old dude was saying about hearing the sound of steam escaping when he had cranked the boiler all the way up.
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#46 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:19 PM

View PostJoanRC, on Jul 12 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

Olddude mentioned hearing a sound which he interpreted as steam escaping when he cranked the boiler in the cabin all the way up.

Actually, I was referring to the normal sound of the tree moving. I initially thought it was a sudden release of pressure from a valve.

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The very last time I played Myst, about 3 weeks ago, I noticed a very tiny puff of steam appear in the picture of the tree in the cabin. I had played Myst 3 or 4 times without noticing this, and each time I had assumed that the entity on the left of the boiler was a picture, and not a window, because the tree elevator is in the middle of a forest, yet none of the trees around the elevator appear in the picture. However, when I saw the puff of steam, I reconsidered my assumption about this.

The puff is very, very tiny, and easily missed. As, I say, I had not noticed it the first three or four times I played Myst.

Well that's the answer then. We just have to make the puff much bigger! :P
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#47 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 04:35 PM

hmmmm... I will go look and see this puff of smoke.... *has to go find diska gain, sister-in-law cleaned up the dining room and all laptop and stuffs wehre in there* >_:P)
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#48 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:02 PM

Update:

Ok um, my piano color thing hasnt gone anywhere sicne I lasted updated, I kinda got ditracted by the birth of my first niece. ^_^()()()

I will get it done though. Does anyone else have any updates? It's seemed pretty quiet lately so I'm jsut a little worried out imagination has pooped out? I could always put up a lolcat image for inspiration? XD
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#49 User is offline   olddude 

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:15 PM

View PostSerrinatta, on Jul 24 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

Ok um, my piano color thing hasnt gone anywhere sicne I lasted updated, I kinda got ditracted by the birth of my first niece. ^_^()()()

Congratulations!

Quote

I will get it done though. Does anyone else have any updates? It's seemed pretty quiet lately so I'm jsut a little worried out imagination has pooped out? I could always put up a lolcat image for inspiration? XD

No updates but my wife picked up an unopened copy of MYST Masterpiece at a yard sale ($2) this past weekend, which I have not had the time to load on a PC. I will be looking at it soon, since it may be easier for people to get and use this version, than the original MYST.
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#50 User is offline   Serrinatta 

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 08:52 PM

View Postolddude, on Jul 24 2007, 03:15 PM, said:

No updates but my wife picked up an unopened copy of MYST Masterpiece at a yard sale ($2) this past weekend, which I have not had the time to load on a PC. I will be looking at it soon, since it may be easier for people to get and use this version, than the original MYST.

Okk! sounds good!
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