MYSTcommunity: Saavedro being nasty - MYSTcommunity

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

Saavedro being nasty Did you trust him?

Poll: Saavedro's betrayal (32 member(s) have cast votes)

Did you get suckered by Saavedro in your first game?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote

#26 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 08 September 2008 - 11:13 AM

View Postrdhight, on Sep 8 2008, 08:36 AM, said:

I was surprised to read about so many people feeling sorry for him. To me, he just came across as stone crazy. I weep for that poor city-tree-blimp-thing at the end of the track in the "good" ending.... he probably jumps off that gondola and goes right into a murderous kill-spree.



He was only crazy because, in addition to being alone for so long, he believed that everyone he loved, including his wife and two "baby girls" had been killed because of Sirrus and Achenar. As a mother, I can tell you that I'd be feeling pretty murderous too. I'd be plotting revenge for as long as it took, and I'd NEVER give up trying to avenge them.

I couldn't help but feel sorry for him. Alone all those years with nothing but the thoughts of his supposedly dead loved ones to keep him company? Who wouldn't go bonkers? And I don't see how he'd go on a killing spree once he gets home. Why would he kill all the people he'd missed so much? Once he realizes that his people are still alive, you can almost see all his pain and rage melt away. He has hope for the first time in 20 years.

I always wished we'd find out if his wife was still alive. I'm sure his daughters were, as they were supposed to be pretty young when he was trapped. I hope he got his happy ending. He didn't deserve what happened to him.
0

#27 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:11 PM

View PostKatran, on Sep 8 2008, 10:13 AM, said:

View Postrdhight, on Sep 8 2008, 08:36 AM, said:

I was surprised to read about so many people feeling sorry for him. To me, he just came across as stone crazy. I weep for that poor city-tree-blimp-thing at the end of the track in the "good" ending.... he probably jumps off that gondola and goes right into a murderous kill-spree.

...
I always wished we'd find out if his wife was still alive. I'm sure his daughters were, as they were supposed to be pretty young when he was trapped. I hope he got his happy ending. He didn't deserve what happened to him.


I always feel sorry for him because Dourif pulls off an amazing finale to his acting right before he tells you to "do it". He gets so visibly happy and nice when he sees he can go back... but goes cold again when "he gives me hope only to destroy me with it."

The terrible thing is that his family could possibly be dead. We don't know how the Narayan civil war went after Saavedro left. His wife and daughters would be nearly helpless and could have been killed. Even if they lived past that, Narayan is probably not in the best shape. The damage done even before the war, added with the destruction and refugees, would probably create a very hard life. A hostile side could even have won, and Saavedro might just be heading to his death. We don't know. All Saavedro has is hope.
0

#28 User is offline   Johannes 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 316
  • Joined: 02-July 08
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Somewhere in Spire

Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:22 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 8 2008, 08:11 PM, said:

All Saavedro has is hope.


Better than being trapped and condemned to die between ice shields, isn't it ?
0

#29 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 08 September 2008 - 02:06 PM

View PostJohannes, on Sep 8 2008, 01:22 PM, said:

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 8 2008, 08:11 PM, said:

All Saavedro has is hope.


Better than being trapped and condemned to die between ice shields, isn't it ?



Yeah, sending him home is still the best option, imho.
0

#30 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:04 PM

View PostKatran, on Sep 8 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

View PostJohannes, on Sep 8 2008, 01:22 PM, said:

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 8 2008, 08:11 PM, said:

All Saavedro has is hope. and his hammer.


Better than being trapped and condemned to die between ice shields, isn't it ?



Yeah, sending him home is still the best option, imho.

I agree. The sad thing is that we cannot change the past. Even doing everything we can to help him, we're just releasing him into an unknown possibly hostile world. We can give him hope, but we cannot rebuild his age. We just send him off and move on, hoping that we did the right thing.
0

#31 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 08 September 2008 - 11:17 PM

I had always hoped that a future game would reference what had happened, that maybe the Stranger or Atrus went back to Narayan to see if things had worked out, especially since it would have been nice of Atrus to apologize for what his sons did to the people.

But, since it's the "good ending", I think we're meant to assume that Saavedro was reunited with his family and that all was right with the world (or Age, as the case may be).
0

#32 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 09 September 2008 - 06:59 PM

View PostKatran, on Sep 8 2008, 10:17 PM, said:

I had always hoped that a future game would reference what had happened, that maybe the Stranger or Atrus went back to Narayan to see if things had worked out, especially since it would have been nice of Atrus to apologize for what his sons did to the people.

But, since it's the "good ending", I think we're meant to assume that Saavedro was reunited with his family and that all was right with the world (or Age, as the case may be).

I don't think it would be safe for Atrus or the Stranger to go back. Again, the war conditions would be hostile. Atrus especially would be risking his life, and if he went in with a platoon of Moiety guards (which I believe he should keep around him at all times with the way he gets into trouble), he could seriously mess up the political system.

"The best hope for us, is to continue to learn, to take from the past only that which is good, and move on. Perhaps in the process, we will build a brighter future."

I think we are meant to not know whether Saavedro is safe. We did our best and gave him hope. Now we must move on.
0

#33 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 09 September 2008 - 07:29 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 9 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

Again, the war conditions would be hostile.


How do we know that? It's 20 years later. Most civil wars don't last that long, and with the source (the brothers) gone, it's unlikely it would still be going on.
0

#34 User is offline   Talashar 

  • oglahneth (ancient one)
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 3,082
  • Joined: 19-July 01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • KI number:00183867

Posted 10 September 2008 - 11:46 AM

Now I'm wondering again why Atrus didn't check on Narayan when he first found the J'nanin linking book. "The one Age I never got around to revisiting" indeed. For shame, Atrus! :arianna:
0

#35 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 10 September 2008 - 03:22 PM

View PostKatran, on Sep 9 2008, 06:29 PM, said:

How do we know that? It's 20 years later. Most civil wars don't last that long, and with the source (the brothers) gone, it's unlikely it would still be going on.

The brothers just started it. Things like that generally increase. Also, I meant that to say conditions of war, after war, or hostile because of the war.

View PostTalashar, on Sep 10 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

Now I'm wondering again why Atrus didn't check on Narayan when he first found the J'nanin linking book. "The one Age I never got around to revisiting" indeed. For shame, Atrus! :arianna:

Atrus, like us all, wanted some peace and time without bad memories. Plus, Saavy was in J'nanin by then, right?
0

#36 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 10 September 2008 - 03:25 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 10 2008, 04:22 PM, said:

The brothers just started it. Things like that generally increase. Also, I meant that to say conditions of war, after war, or hostile because of the war.


Yes, the brothers just started it. How do we know that the Narayani people didn't come to their senses after the brothers (and their influence) had been gone for awhile?

All I'm saying is that we cannot assume that Narayan and it's people are still war-torn.
0

#37 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 10 September 2008 - 03:41 PM

View PostKatran, on Sep 10 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

Yes, the brothers just started it. How do we know that the Narayani people didn't come to their senses after the brothers (and their influence) had been gone for awhile?

All I'm saying is that we cannot assume that Narayan and it's people are still war-torn.

I note that even the brothers seem surprised by the "Narayan civil war debacle". It seems to me that they weren't expecting it to explode like it did. There seemed to be some intense struggle between the youth and elders. Narayan was not extremely stable to begin with, and there were likely other causes that brought out the war.
Hatred tends to grow rather than lessen. I extremely doubt that they were still at war by the time Saavedro returned, at least not the same war, but the structure of Narayan was torn apart by the brothers. Their government and culture has been assaulted, and it is hard to rebuild that.
Even outside of war, Narayan was never a wealthy Age. The strains put on by war (refugees, rebuilding, dealing with the defeated) would severely tax them.
Saavedro is not going back to an easy or pleasant world. It may even be hostile or torn apart. He will have to work and he might have to fight. Fortunately, he seems to have been somwhat of a leader beforehand, and in sending him back we might also be rendering a service to Narayan.
0

#38 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 10 September 2008 - 03:57 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 10 2008, 04:41 PM, said:

Even outside of war, Narayan was never a wealthy Age. The strains put on by war (refugees, rebuilding, dealing with the defeated) would severely tax them.
Saavedro is not going back to an easy or pleasant world. It may even be hostile or torn apart. He will have to work and he might have to fight. Fortunately, he seems to have been somwhat of a leader beforehand, and in sending him back we might also be rendering a service to Narayan.



Yes, all that is possible, but again we don't KNOW that he is going back to anything like that. And if Narayan's stability was in question before the meddling of Sirrus and Achenar, then whatever Saavedro goes back to will probably not be all that surprising to him anyway.
0

#39 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 10 September 2008 - 04:30 PM

View PostKatran, on Sep 10 2008, 02:57 PM, said:

Yes, all that is possible, but again we don't KNOW that he is going back to anything like that. And if Narayan's stability was in question before the meddling of Sirrus and Achenar, then whatever Saavedro goes back to will probably not be all that surprising to him anyway.

We're both just arguing our points, realizing that they have nothing to do with each other. :arianna:

I agree. We don't know what has happened. Most likely it is bad, but there is a good probability that it is not currently at war or overly torn.

That being said, it is probably not as good as it was beforehand. Narayan was like a big pile of blocks; unstable but organized. Then the brothers hit it with a rock. The most likely result is short term chaos and long term lack of organization. Saavedro would be used to the instability itself, not the results of it finally being toppled. The sad truth is that war and pain are the natural results of what the brothers did. War kills people, and there is a fair probability that someone in Saavedro's family has been permanently taken away from him. He's going back to a painful and hard world. We cannot help him there. All we could do was let him go there and give him hope.
0

#40 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 10 September 2008 - 04:34 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 10 2008, 05:30 PM, said:

We're both just arguing our points, realizing that they have nothing to do with each other. :arianna:


Pretty much, lol! :D

Quote

That being said, it is probably not as good as it was beforehand.


I agree with that as well. We'll never know for sure. I was always hoping we'd find out at some point, but it apparently was meant to be left ambiguous.
0

#41 User is offline   Talashar 

  • oglahneth (ancient one)
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 3,082
  • Joined: 19-July 01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • KI number:00183867

Posted 10 September 2008 - 06:01 PM

No doubt Atrus visited Narayan after the events of Exile, only to find that Saavedro had once again lapsed into insanity after discovering that his wife and daughters were all dead. Presto Studios thought that this would be a rather "down" ending and wisely left it ambiguous. :arianna:
0

#42 User is offline   Katran 

  • choortahn (learner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 90
  • Joined: 14-June 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Arizona, USA

Posted 10 September 2008 - 09:41 PM

Lol! :arianna:
0

#43 User is offline   Mystress 

  • "Crazy" is a relative term...
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 3,487
  • Joined: 02-August 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Another world...
  • KI number:01792588

Posted 12 September 2008 - 08:49 PM

*Gives up on trying to lock the thread only because she hasn't heard any good Saavedro/Exile talk for a while now*
0

#44 User is offline   Coolgamer 

  • telahm (guildsman)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 1,178
  • Joined: 05-December 02

Posted 23 November 2008 - 01:04 AM

I do actually feel somewhat sorry for Gehn, but only because I know his back history. I've read the novels, all the diaries... he seems to have been brought up, like most of D'ni, feeling that they actually created worlds. The collapse of the civilization around him, the loss of his wife (who looks very similar to Catherine), all made him feel like he was the last hope to bring back the "noble" D'ni civilization.

Maybe he went insane from the power. Maybe the emotional stress got him. It's clear the man has issues. I never really felt happy trapping him. He's more human then he lets on, but puts up a very strong front. He simply feels he HAS to be in control, he HAS to rebuild an entire civilization, and to know that so many of his ages are falling apart because of mistakes HE made... and not being able to do anything about it?

I'd sure as hell go mad too.
0

#45 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 23 November 2008 - 02:15 AM

View PostCoolgamer, on Nov 22 2008, 11:04 PM, said:

I do actually feel somewhat sorry for Gehn, but only because I know his back history. I've read the novels, all the diaries... he seems to have been brought up, like most of D'ni, feeling that they actually created worlds. The collapse of the civilization around him, the loss of his wife (who looks very similar to Catherine), all made him feel like he was the last hope to bring back the "noble" D'ni civilization.

Maybe he went insane from the power. Maybe the emotional stress got him. It's clear the man has issues. I never really felt happy trapping him. He's more human then he lets on, but puts up a very strong front. He simply feels he HAS to be in control, he HAS to rebuild an entire civilization, and to know that so many of his ages are falling apart because of mistakes HE made... and not being able to do anything about it?

I'd sure as hell go mad too.


Two month bump... :cringes:

Anyway, we actually don't know a lot about Gehn. He disappears twice in the novels (leaving Ti'ana as a... (I don't remember if he was a tenn, child, whatever), and leaving after his son is born). That being said, i think it is quite likely that he knows how much he makes mistakes. Since he believes he creates worlds, this is even worse. His cold front towards natives might just be due to the loss of friends in previous Ages. He eventually had too much destruction (and he was there for the fall of D'ni, which didn't help) and grief that he shut out all compassion (probably with the help of the drug he smokes).
0

#46 User is offline   Mystress 

  • "Crazy" is a relative term...
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 3,487
  • Joined: 02-August 06
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Another world...
  • KI number:01792588

Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:41 AM

Also, coolgamer, could you not use the word 'hell' in these forums? We do consider that a swearword here...

Also, yeah... I think it's time we let the poor thread rest in peace. I mean... a two-month bump? Yikes. That's the equivalent of a zombie. And zombies are scary. So, I think it's time to put this thread six feet under so it doesn't have to suffer anymore...
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • This topic is locked

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users