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How did they meet again? Atrus, Catherine and the Stranger

#1 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:34 PM

Before the beginning of Exile, I mean.

At the end of Riven, puff!, goodbye. Everyone goes separate ways. But then?
My Stranger would have linked riiiiight back to Myst: given the possibility, there was no way she was going back to her previous life. Besides, that Atrus guy spoke English, meaning that there had to be some connection to Earth. Problem is, there wasn't (Atrus being able to write a Linking Book to the Cleft would kind of take all the meaning out of the third book's beginning, right?). But she couldn't know it. And anyway, a life spent exploring Ages would be preferable to a life of excavations or whatever she was doing in that desert in the first place.
But... I guess that didn't happen, did it? Could it? What does Exile's intro imply? Did the Stranger meet Atrus in the desert by chance a couple of days before Exile or what? The Catherine-clone says she 'knew' that their paths would cross again, and she and the Stranger are clearly ('clearly' in Ubisoft's infodumpish way *sigh*) meeting for the first time in a long time. Yet Atrus is expecting the Stranger. My deduction is that the two of them met somehow and he invited the Stranger to his new home. The Stranger follows, meets Catherine for the first time since Riven, Saavedro happens etc. Is this plausible?
(and then -minimal spoiler for the beginning of Revelation-
Click to reveal hidden content
everyone stays bestest friends forever and ever and my inner fangirl is happy.
Thank you, Ubisoft infodump XD)


Sounding like an idiot in three... two... one... post!
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#2 User is offline   Capella 

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 08:02 PM

Since the Fissure likely dumps you back in the desert near the Cleft, and Tomahna is in the desert near the Cleft, I imagine you just stumble across them once they create Tomahna. In my mental canon, my Stranger gets dumped off in the Cleft and lives in it until Atrus goes back one day and finds her. I never read the Exile opening as not seen since Riven, but just not seen for months or maybe even years.

As for Myst, I don't know if you'd find the Myst book, at least immediately. I do think it ended up on Earth with you, but it might have been a few months until you found it again.
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#3 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 08:26 PM

Catherine seems pretty familiar with you in the Exile intro, so I'm guessing you've met her some times since Riven. However, not in Tomahna (because she says "breathtaking isn't it?" like you've never seen that view before)?
Two potential chains of events that I see:
Idea III
1. You fall from the Fissure
2. You find the Myst book and in the course of time link through again
3. You meet Atrus and Catherine in the Ages.
4. You get sent back through the Riven book? Or up the tunnels (this would be visiting them after BoD)
5. They invite you to Tomahna to see Releeshan (Tomahna is fairly new at this time, and also you never got to it before - maybe you were sick when they first completed it), Exile occurs.
Idea DI
1. You fall from the Fissure
2. You may find the Myst book, but you are perhaps afraid of being stuck (because of Riven's demise)
3. You go on your normal life mainly
4. Atrus looks around after coming up the tunnels, or drops something through the Fissure, or something to notify you
5. You have some meetings, maybe in an unfinished Tomahna
6. You are finally invited to Tomahna finished, and Exile occurs
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#4 User is offline   Sonic_light 

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:01 AM

I like the meeting Atrus for the first time in years (it would be about 10ish since the Book of D'ni is set about 10 years after Riven and the epilogue of the book talks about Yeesha having just been born and their settling into Tomahna) and then seeing Catherine in the garden for the first time since Riven.
I would think if I were the one who experienced all this that, having returned to Earth near the Cleft (if Uru canon is taken into consideration) I would have come back every so often to see if there had been any changes or whatnot. Since Tomahna is so close to the Cleft, and Atrus seems to go back there on a regular basis (per Revelation), then it seems plausible that he would bump into us at some point, or we would have noticed a change in the Cleft and waited about.

Also, what did you mean by Ubisoft's infodumpish way, pineapple? As far as I know Ubisoft only published they didn't make it (that was Presto Studios, very awesome company, btw).
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#5 User is offline   D'naki 

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:44 PM

View Postlaughingpineapple, on Feb 11 2009, 07:34 PM, said:

Besides, that Atrus guy spoke English, meaning that there had to be some connection to Earth. Problem is, there wasn't.


LP, maybe I just read your post wrong (prone to happen!) but there is a connection between Atrus and Earth. The cleft is ON Earth. D'ni is INSIDE the Earth. As a child, Atrus was raised on Earth (I'm sure someone can cite the approximate time period, but I can't). So...like I said, I may have misread your post, but Atrus (and D'ni to boot) are both linked to Earth. Hypothetically, if we were to find the place where the Great Shaft was drilled, we could take it down to the tunnels to D'ni.

Which, deep in my heart, I would like to believe is possible. :cheesy:

But, does what I said make sense, or did I just misread your post?
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#6 User is offline   Menelmacar 

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:27 PM

View PostD, on Mar 9 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

As a child, Atrus was raised on Earth (I'm sure someone can cite the approximate time period, but I can't).


Mid to Late 1700s. :cheesy: Myst and Riven occur between 1806-1807.

CM
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#7 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:26 AM

Nonono, I know that, but ::in that particular time lapse:: there was none, since the only Linking Book to 'ni/Earth on Myst led to the prison room on K'veer, which was blocked.

Answering to previous posts:

"Ubisoft" as in "Mary deMarle", whom I consider to be a fantastic storyteller but not on par with Cyan. :cheesy:
A quick example from Revelation:
Click to reveal hidden content
I only know that when they looked at the Ages described in my library — fantastic worlds one could travel to easily, simply by touching a Book’s linking panel —

Catherine's opening speech in Exile didn't sound very natural to me.

Quote

I like the meeting Atrus for the first time in years

I... your posts led me to like both. That implied meeting is a very powerful scene, one that I would love to elaborate and write upon. But being 'stranded' on 19th century Earth after a taste of the Ages would be so sad.


Quote

As for Myst, I don't know if you'd find the Myst book, at least immediately. I do think it ended up on Earth with you, but it might have been a few months until you found it again.

Not 'that' Myst Linking Book, THE Myst Linking Book XD That one would still be where we left it, right?
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#8 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 09:35 AM

Quote

My Stranger would have linked riiiiight back to Myst: given the possibility, there was no way she was going back to her previous life. Besides, that Atrus guy spoke English, meaning that there had to be some connection to Earth.

I would assume that after who-knows-how-long a time of going through Atrus' Ages, the Stranger would find out that there was no open way to get back to Earth. That's why Atrus' announcement that he could get the Stranger back - back to other people, back to populated civilization, back to a wider area than a couple of Ages with no stores and little attention to modern human conveniences, back to family and friends - was so major.
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#9 User is offline   Capella 

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 11:02 AM

View Postlaughingpineapple, on Mar 10 2009, 05:26 AM, said:

Not 'that' Myst Linking Book, THE Myst Linking Book XD That one would still be where we left it, right?


Yep, but you might not wind up exactly where you left it :cheesy: You might be somewhere in the desert 50 miles away.
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#10 User is offline   Maxine MagicFox 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:17 PM

I wonder if this is a dumb question but... *takes a deep breathe*

Who said that the first Myst linking book that you find fell on earth at all. :\ I haven't read the book in a loooooong time, but I remember it just falling from Atrus's hands into the Starry Fissure. Who says the book fell on earth at all and that's where the Stranger came from? I can't recall that at all and I've personally never assumed it. Couldn't the Stranger just as easily been a Narayani (just an example, as I can think of a dozen plot holes with this)? Or maybe from some other strange Age.

I personally have always wondered if the Stranger in Myst III is the same Stranger from Myst and Riven. Atrus obviously has a habit of calling people "my friend" since Saavedro constantly kept throwing it back at suppose-to-be-there-but-isn't-Atrus.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
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#11 User is offline   realXCV 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:01 PM

Uru confirms that the end of the Star Fissure is on earth.

Same Stranger in Myst, Riven, Exile and Revelation.
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#12 User is offline   Maxine MagicFox 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:10 PM

View PostrealXCV, on Mar 16 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Uru confirms that the end of the Star Fissure is on earth.

Same Stranger in Myst, Riven, Exile and Revelation.


Aww, I see. Thank you. Since I have not played Uru (and don't intend to), could you give me a brief description about how this was verified? In a journal or something? I'd appreciate it ^_^

But... where is the second line's verification?
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#13 User is offline   realXCV 

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 10:31 PM

View PostMaxine MagicFox, on Mar 16 2009, 11:10 PM, said:

Aww, I see. Thank you. Since I have not played Uru (and don't intend to), could you give me a brief description about how this was verified? In a journal or something? I'd appreciate it ^_^

There is something from Riven.

Quote

But... where is the second line's verification?

No idea.
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#14 User is offline   Koena 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 04:26 AM

All we know about the Stranger(s) is that the player of End of Ages is actually Dr. Watson, not the same character of the previous games

Cyan never told us anything about the Stranger so I don't think that anyone said that it is the same character in all the four games (unless RAWA mentioned something).

But IMHO it's strongly implied through the games, at least between Myst and Riven. As for the other two games, itis open to interpretation, but I think Ockham's Razor tells us to accept that it's the same Stranger in all four games: The writers would have no reason to make things more complex by introducing other characters.
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#15 User is offline   Gorobay 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 04:39 AM

View PostKoena, on Mar 17 2009, 06:26 AM, said:

All we know about the Stranger(s) is that the player of Revelation is actually Dr. Watson, not the same character of the previous games

You mean End of Ages, not Revelation.
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#16 User is offline   Koena 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:10 AM

Right! Corrected!!

PS. which Age is that in the second frame of your banner show?
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#17 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:54 AM

Quote

But... where is the second line's verification?

Yeesha's journal in End of Ages. :cheesy: She's quite clearly referring to the same person throughout the 'summary' pages.
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#18 User is offline   Sonic_light 

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 08:21 AM

View Postlaughingpineapple, on Mar 17 2009, 05:54 AM, said:

Quote

But... where is the second line's verification?

Yeesha's journal in End of Ages. :cheesy: She's quite clearly referring to the same person throughout the 'summary' pages.

Good call :D You beat me to it :D
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#19 User is offline   Whatever2965 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:09 PM

View PostKoena, on Mar 17 2009, 05:26 AM, said:

Cyan never told us anything about the Stranger so I don't think that anyone said that it is the same character in all the four games (unless RAWA mentioned something).


Actually, there's quite a lot of information...

The stranger is male. (been referred to as a he by several characters)
He is white. (the cursor image)
He is right-handed. (the default cursor image and the "grabbing" image are both right-handed)
He lived near the Cleft in 1806.
He almost certainly can't swim.
He is fairly thin. (squeezing under the gate on Temple Island in Riven)
Also he was born some time before 1806, and died after 1824.
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#20 User is offline   Koena 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 03:48 PM

View PostWhatever2965, on Mar 19 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

The stranger is male. (been referred to as a he by several characters)

That's a bit controversial. Where is that???
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#21 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 05:24 PM

View PostWhatever2965, on Mar 19 2009, 04:09 PM, said:

He is white. (the cursor image)
He is right-handed. (the default cursor image and the "grabbing" image are both right-handed)


These can probably be taken as interface conventions, rather than indications about what the Stranger is actually like.
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#22 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:00 PM

Quote

That's a bit controversial. Where is that???

In every translation, sadly. But not in the original, as far as I know. As a girl, I think I would have noticed. :cheesy:

As for the cursor, the only game where it actually looks like a hand gives the player the possibility of changing skin colour, right? I immediately set it to white, as in as-fake-as-possible-give-me-back-my-cursor-please, that floating pink hand scared me.

And the Stranger didn't necessarily ::live:: near the Cleft. Could be a native, could be an settler of sorts (think Ti'ana and her father), could be a traveller. :D

Oh, and you forgot that s/he speaks English, or, at the very least, can understand it a little.
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#23 User is offline   Koena 

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 04:56 AM

A little bit off-topic :cheesy:

There has been some years since when End of Ages was released. I still have not played it but this discussion enabled me yesterday to read the journals from that game. There I noticed something very interesting, and I really wonder why I have never read about it since then.

Yeesha mentions the Stranger in her Third Journal, and in the end she compares herself to "a stranger". The Journal ends with a composite sketch of the half of her face, and a man's, with a slight beard.

One can interpret it by considering the male half of the face as that of her old friend, and compares herself to him

Posted Image

Do you think this is the only existing illustration of the Stranger?
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#24 User is offline   Sonic_light 

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:17 PM

View PostKoena, on Mar 20 2009, 03:56 AM, said:

A little bit off-topic :cheesy:

There has been some years since when End of Ages was released. I still have not played it but this discussion enabled me yesterday to read the journals from that game. There I noticed something very interesting, and I really wonder why I have never read about it since then.

Yeesha mentions the Stranger in her Third Journal, and in the end she compares herself to "a stranger". The Journal ends with a composite sketch of the half of her face, and a man's, with a slight beard.

One can interpret it by considering the male half of the face as that of her old friend, and compares herself to him

Posted Image

Do you think this is the only existing illustration of the Stranger?

I believe both sides are Yeesha's face. The tattoo on the right eye is the same one Yeesha has when you meet her in Myst V. I think the rest of the coloration is meant to be abstract.
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#25 User is offline   musicwumusic 

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:09 PM

I was told that you cannot link within an age using linking books. If this is true, Tomahna is NOT on Earth (or anywhere in the Milky Way, etc).

Quote

And the Stranger didn't necessarily ::live:: near the Cleft. Could be a native, could be an settler of sorts (think Ti'ana and her father), could be a traveller. eek.gif

Oh, and you forgot that s/he speaks English, or, at the very least, can understand it a little.


I believe the stranger is either living there in the desert and one day at night wandered out and found the Myst book, which had conveniently been uncovered by a sandstorm or such. I won't discard the notion of the stranger being a traveller who happened to be on the spot, but I prefer the native stranger who would fall back here from Riven and remain in this spot. In time the Stranger would revisit Myst, at which point he/she finds Atrus and gets invited to Tomahna. Between Myst III and IV the stranger most likely does not return home (who would want to go back to that desert place after being in Tomahna?) given the fact that Atrus had no other option than what happens at the end of Riven, I would say they did not have a link back to Earth available. The beginning of Myst IV confirms that the Stranger has been living in another region of Tomahna and once again is invited to visit Atrus and his family (if Atrus can communicate between ages he could definitely have contacted the Stranger in his/her area of Tomahna) and is picked up by Yeesha. Perhaps there are other people living on Tomahna where the Stranger is located? Perhaps the Stranger is a solitary individual.

Quote

Besides, that Atrus guy spoke English

His grandmother came from Earth. :cheesy:
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