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How did they meet again? Atrus, Catherine and the Stranger

#26 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 06:15 AM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 27 2009, 11:09 PM, said:

I was told that you cannot link within an age using linking books. If this is true, Tomahna is NOT on Earth (or anywhere in the Milky Way, etc).


It has been officially confirmed that Tomahna is on Earth. Yeesha has the ability to establish links within an Age.
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#27 User is offline   realXCV 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 06:17 AM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 12:09 AM, said:

I was told that you cannot link within an age using linking books. If this is true, Tomahna is NOT on Earth (or anywhere in the Milky Way, etc).

I don't remember any book from Tomahna to Tomahna
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#28 User is offline   musicwumusic 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 08:52 AM

Quote

It has been officially confirmed that Tomahna is on Earth. Yeesha has the ability to establish links within an Age.


But Yeesha isn't really part of Myst I - IV is she? In Revelation she was being taught how to write in D'ni, so I don't think she was involved with linking around at this time :cheesy:

Also I don't think you can link within the same age with linking books, correct me if I'm wrong (we don't see Bahro stones until Uru).

View PostrealXCV, on Mar 28 2009, 08:17 AM, said:

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 12:09 AM, said:

I was told that you cannot link within an age using linking books. If this is true, Tomahna is NOT on Earth (or anywhere in the Milky Way, etc).

I don't remember any book from Tomahna to Tomahna


In my opinion when you arrive in Tomahna in the beginning of Exile you linked there, because
Click to reveal hidden content
at the end you link back to the same spot and so could Saavedro.

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#29 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 09:54 AM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 07:52 AM, said:

In my opinion when you arrive in Tomahna in the beginning of Exile you linked there, because
Click to reveal hidden content
at the end you link back to the same spot and so could Saavedro.

Could be a coincidence. If you had come through the house without linking, you would have to have passed through that area.
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#30 User is offline   Koena 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 11:21 AM

I also have the impression that at the start of the game, the player is linked to Tomahna

IMHO the game designers intended Tomahna to be an Age, not a place on Earth. At least before the canon established that Tomahna is a place near the Cleft.
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#31 User is offline   Sonic_light 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 12:15 PM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 07:52 AM, said:

Quote

It has been officially confirmed that Tomahna is on Earth. Yeesha has the ability to establish links within an Age.


But Yeesha isn't really part of Myst I - IV is she? In Revelation she was being taught how to write in D'ni, so I don't think she was involved with linking around at this time :cheesy:

Also I don't think you can link within the same age with linking books, correct me if I'm wrong (we don't see Bahro stones until Uru).

You're right you can't. Say you're on Myst standing in the clock tower. You couldn't use another Myst book to link to, say, the library. You would have to link out of Myst and the back to the library.
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#32 User is offline   realXCV 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 01:55 PM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 10:52 AM, said:

Also I don't think you can link within the same age with linking books, correct me if I'm wrong (we don't see Bahro stones until Uru).

Relto.
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#33 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 05:55 PM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 09:52 AM, said:

Quote

It has been officially confirmed that Tomahna is on Earth. Yeesha has the ability to establish links within an Age.


But Yeesha isn't really part of Myst I - IV is she? In Revelation she was being taught how to write in D'ni, so I don't think she was involved with linking around at this time :cheesy:

Also I don't think you can link within the same age with linking books, correct me if I'm wrong (we don't see Bahro stones until Uru).

View PostrealXCV, on Mar 28 2009, 08:17 AM, said:

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 12:09 AM, said:

I was told that you cannot link within an age using linking books. If this is true, Tomahna is NOT on Earth (or anywhere in the Milky Way, etc).

I don't remember any book from Tomahna to Tomahna


In my opinion when you arrive in Tomahna in the beginning of Exile you linked there, because
Click to reveal hidden content
at the end you link back to the same spot and so could Saavedro.



Okay, I thought you were referring to Uru. I don't think the beginning of Exile doesn't quite work when taken in-character: it seems to be more of a way of welcoming the player back to the Myst series and introducing Tomahna. If I recall correctly, the game designers were actually informed of Tomahna's location, and that's why the exterior looks the way it should!
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#34 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 06:09 PM

View PostrealXCV, on Mar 28 2009, 12:55 PM, said:

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 10:52 AM, said:

Also I don't think you can link within the same age with linking books, correct me if I'm wrong (we don't see Bahro stones until Uru).

Relto.

Still in Uru, and with special YeeshaMagicTM. Not exactly a regular linking book.

Quote

View PostTalashar, on Mar 28 2009, 04:55 PM, said:

View PostrealXCV, on Mar 28 2009, 08:17 AM, said:

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 12:09 AM, said:

I was told that you cannot link within an age using linking books. If this is true, Tomahna is NOT on Earth (or anywhere in the Milky Way, etc).

I don't remember any book from Tomahna to Tomahna


In my opinion when you arrive in Tomahna in the beginning of Exile you linked there, because
Click to reveal hidden content
at the end you link back to the same spot and so could Saavedro.



Okay, I thought you were referring to Uru. I don't think the beginning of Exile doesn't quite work when taken in-character: it seems to be more of a way of welcoming the player back to the Myst series and introducing Tomahna. If I recall correctly, the game designers were actually informed of Tomahna's location, and that's why the exterior looks the way it should!

It would work if you ignore the "going through the letters of the title", just like the beginning of Revelation works if you ignore the burst of light and all. You've come through the rest of Tomahna, but just now get this nice view (Presto wouldn't have exactly known that Ubisoft would make more breathtaking views before you'd get to this spot :cheesy: ) Bringing you all the way through Tomahna would just be boring and take a lot more rendering and all.
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#35 User is offline   musicwumusic 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 08:01 PM

Quote

YeeshaMagicTM
:cheesy: :D :D

The reason I laugh is because I've been way too serious about speculating the specifics of the logic behind Yeesha's Bahro-spiked linking powers. *still laughing*

Quote

It would work if you ignore the "going through the letters of the title", just like the beginning of Revelation works if you ignore the burst of light and all. You've come through the rest of Tomahna, but just now get this nice view (Presto wouldn't have exactly known that Ubisoft would make more breathtaking views before you'd get to this spot tongue.gif ) Bringing you all the way through Tomahna would just be boring and take a lot more rendering and all.


That works cause it's up to the player then to decide if he/she linked here or not :rotflol:

Back to the original topic... If Tomahna is on Earth how did Atrus get there after Riven? I guess it would have been easy to find the Stranger if Tomahna was indeed on Earth... just needed to find his lost stash of linking books to D'ni :squee: But he must have given very specific instructions to reach that starting room in Exile because in Revelation you find out that
Click to reveal hidden content
it's not even near the entrance, and it's locked.

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#36 User is offline   Sonic_light 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 12:54 AM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Back to the original topic... If Tomahna is on Earth how did Atrus get there after Riven? I guess it would have been easy to find the Stranger if Tomahna was indeed on Earth... just needed to find his lost stash of linking books to D'ni :cheesy: But he must have given very specific instructions to reach that starting room in Exile because in Revelation you find out that
Click to reveal hidden content
it's not even near the entrance, and it's locked.

He and Catherine linked back to D'ni. After about ten years, they were able to return to D'ni proper (see Book of D'ni) and travelled surface side at some point. Then built Tomahna, etc etc.
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#37 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:12 AM

View Postmusicwumusic, on Mar 28 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Back to the original topic... If Tomahna is on Earth how did Atrus get there after Riven?

Click to reveal hidden content
Atrus wrote some Ages with natives, then used the extra manpower to break through the caved in doors from K'veer. He then could find with way up through the tunnels and to the surface

Quote

I guess it would have been easy to find the Stranger if Tomahna was indeed on Earth... just needed to find his lost stash of linking books to D'ni :cheesy: But he must have given very specific instructions to reach that starting room in Exile because in Revelation you find out that
Click to reveal hidden content
it's not even near the entrance, and it's locked.

Catherine could have let the Stranger in. She'd have led the Stranger through the Atrus' study (because the Releeshan book was there, so it would be the logical place for the Stranger and Atrus to chat) and perhaps pointed out what everything was and where the bathrooms are and all in the house. When they got to the area outside the study, she'd sum it all up with "Breathtaking, isn't it?" (especially relevant because of the nice view from that spot) "We call it Tomahna" (somewhat odd for her to not tell the Stranger this before, but normal odd - regular people would just forget to mention it earlier or have to remind people of it similarly)
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#38 User is offline   Koena 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 03:59 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Mar 29 2009, 11:12 AM, said:

Catherine could have let the Stranger in. She'd have led the Stranger through the Atrus' study (because the Releeshan book was there, so it would be the logical place for the Stranger and Atrus to chat) and perhaps pointed out what everything was and where the bathrooms are and all in the house. When they got to the area outside the study, she'd sum it all up with "Breathtaking, isn't it?" (especially relevant because of the nice view from that spot) "We call it Tomahna" (somewhat odd for her to not tell the Stranger this before, but normal odd - regular people would just forget to mention it earlier or have to remind people of it similarly)


Catherine didn't allow the Stranger to enter their bedroom so I doubt she showed him the other parts of the house. My impression is that the Stranger came to Tomahna from the desert (or linked there; I still believe that Tomahna was considered a separate Age when the game was designed). He came following some directions or instructions and found that leafy opening to the court. Then as he arrived, before entering the house, he paused to see the breathtaking landscape, not knowing that Catherine was behind him.
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#39 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 06:04 PM

View PostKoena, on Mar 29 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

Catherine didn't allow the Stranger to enter their bedroom so I doubt she showed him the other parts of the house. My impression is that the Stranger came to Tomahna from the desert (or linked there; I still believe that Tomahna was considered a separate Age when the game was designed). He came following some directions or instructions and found that leafy opening to the court. Then as he arrived, before entering the house, he paused to see the breathtaking landscape, not knowing that Catherine was behind him.

Bedroom? You mean the "I'm sorry, the other door"? That's just because she said to wait in the study, and the Stranger was going the wrong way. That door just leads to a hallway leading to the main area of the house (where the Stranger would have come in from). As there are no real openings in the fence around the area, and since it appears to be somewhat high above the surrounding area, I would doubt the Stranger would just climb in.

Posted Image

(notice the railings)

Posted Image

(that looks pretty high up to me - not something I'd exactly like to climb, and not a way I'd send visitors through [although who knows how well Atrus gives directions :cheesy: ])


If he (or she, but I'll just use the masculine pronouns to save time) did climb in, I would expect Catherine to say something. I mean, an old friend (who you may or may not have seen recently) climbing up into a balcony/sunroom area is something of note.

If he didn't climb in, then he'd have to have come in through the "other door" as there are only two doors there (and the other is the study, which has no other entrances and which would be somewhat odd [for the Stranger to come out and then Catherine to tell him to go back in to wait for Atrus]). Catherine also seems to have come in from there (or why would the Stranger pass by her [no places to conceal oneself in the sunroom] to look at the view first?)

Now it is possible that the Stranger had just been waiting there awhile, and that Catherine had just noticed that he was around and went to greet him. However, it seems more likely to me that she had been following the Stranger in. Tomahna is not an easy place to go through with written directions, and that room would probably be one of the hardest places to get to (it's tucked away in a corner, through a door in a greenhouse).
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#40 User is offline   Almaron 

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 03:08 PM

To quickly mention the stranger again, Maybe Atrus sook him out. After finishing Releeshahn, Atrus decided to visit the Cleft (which is fair enough, considering that he grew up there, and hadn't seen it in a long time). When getting there, he would have found the ruins of Riven (The Dagger, the Telescope, The Whark Skeleton), and assumed his friend would be in the area. Maybe then he built Tomahna to keep close, halfway between both worlds.

As for the Stranger, although we assume he found the book at the cleft, there is nothing that suggests he didn't find the book through a trader. Maybe after returning to Earth, he went home to recuperate, and then returned with the book, and met up with Atrus.

I don't know, these are just some of my theories.
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#41 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:52 PM

View PostAlmaron, on Jul 3 2009, 02:08 PM, said:

To quickly mention the stranger again, Maybe Atrus sought him out. After finishing Releeshahn, Atrus decided to visit the Cleft (which is fair enough, considering that he grew up there, and hadn't seen it in a long time). When getting there, he would have found the ruins of Riven (The Dagger, the Telescope, The Whark Skeleton), and assumed his friend would be in the area. Maybe then he built Tomahna to keep close, halfway between both worlds.

That's quite possible. Or, they could have met rather accidentally. Or, the Stranger could have sought Atrus out (after finding something D'ni, which he would remember from Atrus' stories). Or maybe the Stranger visited Atrus through the Myst book, and then they figured something out (especially if the Stranger noted that the D'ni book would not work for him on Earth?).

Quote

As for the Stranger, although we assume he found the book at the cleft, there is nothing that suggests he didn't find the book through a trader. Maybe after returning to Earth, he went home to recuperate, and then returned with the book, and met up with Atrus.

Yes, that would be possible (counting the Myst intro as artistic license, which with its transition from Atrus and the blue lightning and all...), although I don't see Atrus as being more likely to meet the Stranger if that was so.
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#42 User is offline   Lurker Underground 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 09:19 AM

Have you read the Book of Atrus yet?
Click to reveal hidden content
The "blue lightning" is the Riven fissure opening.

From the way Catherine talks, it does seem likely that you just linked in.
Perhaps they left a Tomahna linking book on Myst?
Click to reveal hidden content
We know they kept one in Serenia.

Otherwise it seems likely you would have had to enter the way you do in Revelation, and in Exile
Click to reveal hidden content
Yeesha's not old enough to guide you there.

-LU
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#43 User is offline   Thestrangered 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 09:56 AM

I have another question: all over the series, Atrus sends letters to many people- to you, or to yeesha or whatnot. The question is: how? it's not like there's a post office of or something.
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#44 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 12:25 PM

View PostLurker Underground, on Jul 4 2009, 08:19 AM, said:

Have you read the Book of Atrus yet?
Click to reveal hidden content
The "blue lightning" is the Riven fissure opening.

I meant the blue lightning stuff that shoots out when the book hits the ground.
Posted Image

Quote

From the way Catherine talks, it does seem likely that you just linked in.
Perhaps they left a Tomahna linking book on Myst?
Click to reveal hidden content
We know they kept one in Serenia.

I actually think that the way Catherine talks indicates that you haven't just walked in, or at least is ambiguous about it. To me, it sounds like she's been giving you a tour of the house, and now is mentioning about the view from this one area.

Quote

Otherwise it seems likely you would have had to enter the way you do in Revelation, and in Exile
Click to reveal hidden content
Yeesha's not old enough to guide you there.

-LU

Click to reveal hidden content
But Atrus and Catherine are, and you could also walk in from somewhere around there.


View PostThestrangered, on Jul 4 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

I have another question: all over the series, Atrus sends letters to many people- to you, or to yeesha or whatnot. The question is: how? it's not like there's a post office of or something.

That's a good question. Maybe the D'ni/Moiety sometimes mingle with the rest of the world somehow? Or maybe he just leaves the letters somewhere that he knows the Stranger checks sometimes (in the Cleft, maybe)?
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#45 User is offline   Almaron 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 06:27 PM

Quote

I actually think that the way Catherine talks indicates that you haven't just walked in, or at least is ambiguous about it. To me, it sounds like she's been giving you a tour of the house, and now is mentioning about the view from this one area.


Remember, we are confused because we haven't seen what happened before that scene. For all we know, the stranger has already visited the entire house. We, playing as him, are confused as we have just entered the game.

Does that make sense?

Quote

I have another question: all over the series, Atrus sends letters to many people- to you, or to yeesha or whatnot. The question is: how? it's not like there's a post office of or something.


We know from the Book of Ti'ana and Atrus that there is a city nearby, and traders often tour the area. Atrus is probably thought of as a strange hermit who lives near the old volcano (he might use the cleft as a false home), but is still good for trading with. The stranger probably lives in Tadjinar (or whatever the town is called) so he could be close to Atrus and family. Atrus would only need to give the letter to one of the traders, and ask him to take it to a certain place, where the stranger would find it (probably after decoding an overly complex parcel lock :arianna: ).
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