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Unable to free Catherine Prison buttons don't work

#1 User is offline   bmenrigh 

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 01:47 AM

I decided to play Riven again today after about 8 years. I have trapped Ghen and written down the sound combination on the watch/clock in his room but the three buttons in the elevator up to Catherine's prison are not working. That is, I don't get the "hand" icon on any of the three buttons, just the standard pointer, and when I click nothing happens, no sound, and no pressing animation. The left-to-right slider on the top is responding properly as is the pull-level to make the elevator go up.

I don't recall seeing any mechanism to "power" the prison combination and I'm pretty stuck. I'd like to finish the game with the correct ending...

I've tried both the original DVD version of the game as well as the 10th Anniversary version. I'm running the game on Linux in Wine 1.1.21 although up to this point everything has worked perfectly and glitch-free.

I have found one other person mention this problem (in YouTube comments of all places). They wrote:

"when i try to put in the combination it wont let me.. it wont give me the animation that the buttons have been pushed.. what am i doing wrong.. btw i am playing the ps version"

I'd love to hear suggestions.
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#2 User is offline   bmenrigh 

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 10:32 PM

Well I'm happy to report that I was able to get past this. It seems that Riven on Linux with Wine was causing the issue. Strange that I got 99% of the way through the game before any bug showed up. I installed Riven on Windows XP running in VMWare, loaded up my saved game, and was able to free Catherine.

Riven is a great game but it's really unfortunate how many problems it has had. XP issues, Vista issues, QuickTime issues, Linux+Wine issues, etc.
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#3 User is offline   Johnraka 

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 07:46 AM

View Postbmenrigh, on Jun 14 2009, 05:32 AM, said:

Well I'm happy to report that I was able to get past this. It seems that Riven on Linux with Wine was causing the issue. Strange that I got 99% of the way through the game before any bug showed up. I installed Riven on Windows XP running in VMWare, loaded up my saved game, and was able to free Catherine.

Riven is a great game but it's really unfortunate how many problems it has had. XP issues, Vista issues, QuickTime issues, Linux+Wine issues, etc.



The problem is it is an old game and as such is not really updated by Cyan.

Many of us on the Myst Community wish (Oh, how we wish!) that somebody would make a real time version but there seems to be a whole stack of reasons why it can't be done...

In my opinion (for what it is worth), it really is the best of the whole series, Exile and Revelation beat it for realism (environment etc) but for sheer beauty and gameplay Riven certainly scores top of the list.

Glad you got your problems sorted :arianna:
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#4 User is offline   Zenoc2 

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 04:11 PM

What reasons? Besides the fact that Riven's huge, of course.
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#5 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 04:46 PM

View PostZenoc2, on Jul 22 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

What reasons? Besides the fact that Riven's huge, of course.

Mainly these.
-It is large and there's a lot of detail (which works fine in pre-rendered, but would crush realtime animation). They'd probably have to remake whole swaths of land (not to mention angles of land that weren't important because they weren't seen in pre-rendered, but would appear in realtime).
-There's lots of buttons, animations, paths... just lots and lots of stuff aside from just the general 3D model.
-It would be hard to preserve the level of detail and still have a running game.
-There's lots of video footage of characters, which would present problems in a 3D game (either they'd have to be replaced for 3D animated people or else perhaps the person would be frozen in place when they played as 2D animations in the 3D field).
-Cyan is focused mainly on small and fully funded projects now (just to stay alive), and there probably wouldn't be that much revenue from a realRiven.
(yes I made sure that there were 5 reasons there)
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#6 User is offline   tansunn 

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 02:02 PM

I'm going to counter your arguments.

I'm not sure if "large and detailed" is an issue any more. For one, modern hardware is advanced enough that it can render a reasonable recreation of Riven's islands, if not a perfect recreation. For another, there are plenty of tricks that can be used to save on processing power. For example, you could have lower detail models and textures when objects are further in the distance, and higher detail models and textures that swap in as you get closer. Even for lower end computers, they could use lower resolution textures and models, although with the obvious cost of image quality.

As for buttons, that might actually be easier in 3D than pre-rendered. Set a flag to open a door and that door opens, no matter what, it'll be open, they don't have to re-render every view of that door in both an opened and closed state. Animations and paths wouldn't be too hard either. They were already done for the original, now you're just making it animate in realtime instead of loading a video file.

Level of detail was already covered, but I tend to agree. The level of detail wouldn't be as high for all places at all times, but as far as gameplay is concerned, it doesn't have to be. For example, if you see a forest of trees off in the distance, the game doesn't have to render every single tree. Just render a flat plane with a texture of trees, then swap to tree models when you get close enough for it to matter. Uru used some similar tricks, and I think if Riven were remade with the same level of detail that Uru's Ages had, it would be a successful project.

I agree with your last two points, though. I'm not sure which would be the best way to handle the human(oid) characters. On the one hand, the 3D characters would blend into the environment better, but they'd more than likely have that obviously computer-generated look. On the other hand, digitized video would make the characters look more realistic, but the player would have to be frozen and possibly have their viewpoint locked (not THAT big of an issue since that's how the video worked in the original game) and unless the green/blue screen was done REALLY well, there would be an obvious mismatch between the character and the environment.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's doable, it would just take a lot of work that nobody wants to do. :arianna:
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#7 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 05:13 PM

View Posttansunn, on Aug 23 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

I'm going to counter your arguments.

I'm not sure if "large and detailed" is an issue any more. For one, modern hardware is advanced enough that it can render a reasonable recreation of Riven's islands, if not a perfect recreation. For another, there are plenty of tricks that can be used to save on processing power. For example, you could have lower detail models and textures when objects are further in the distance, and higher detail models and textures that swap in as you get closer. Even for lower end computers, they could use lower resolution textures and models, although with the obvious cost of image quality.

Tricks take a lot of (people) work, though, especially when you have such a large and detailed model (because the people adding and adjusting all the tricks would have to go through the whole thing and work on lots and lots of details). Also, I'm not sure if the Plasma engine (the engine that Cyan has the most access to and experience with) can handle the detail in an efficient manner. Riven had lots of subtle lighting and texturing.

Quote

As for buttons, that might actually be easier in 3D than pre-rendered. Set a flag to open a door and that door opens, no matter what, it'll be open, they don't have to re-render every view of that door in both an opened and closed state. Animations and paths wouldn't be too hard either. They were already done for the original, now you're just making it animate in realtime instead of loading a video file.

Again, though, that's a lot of work. Every single button, door, path... all of that would have to be gone over again and recreated carefully (especially if lots of tricks are used to make it run faster).

Quote

Level of detail was already covered, but I tend to agree. The level of detail wouldn't be as high for all places at all times, but as far as gameplay is concerned, it doesn't have to be. For example, if you see a forest of trees off in the distance, the game doesn't have to render every single tree. Just render a flat plane with a texture of trees, then swap to tree models when you get close enough for it to matter. Uru used some similar tricks, and I think if Riven were remade with the same level of detail that Uru's Ages had, it would be a successful project.

It wouldn't disturb the gameplay, but that's not all that made Riven so great. A lot of Riven's appeal lies in its very realistic look - the patterns of rust, the weeds, the carefully detailed machines. Riven had a lot of atmosphere that made it feel very real and made the Age and story so compelling. The little details made a big impression. We could see how Gehn took care of his machines, how the natives constructed his designs, how the Age had been faring. In URU, you can tell that the textures are textures, and it takes away that part of the atmosphere (but Uru is made with that in mind).

Quote

I agree with your last two points, though. I'm not sure which would be the best way to handle the human(oid) characters. On the one hand, the 3D characters would blend into the environment better, but they'd more than likely have that obviously computer-generated look. On the other hand, digitized video would make the characters look more realistic, but the player would have to be frozen and possibly have their viewpoint locked (not THAT big of an issue since that's how the video worked in the original game) and unless the green/blue screen was done REALLY well, there would be an obvious mismatch between the character and the environment.

I don't think locking the view would be that much of a problem. Almost all the encounters are put so that freezing the view made more sense (either you are surprised, or in a cage, or wondering what's happening to you...), and it doesn't really stop you from doing much. Most of the time, you couldn't do anything (productive in the game) while the person appears anyway.
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#8 User is offline   tansunn 

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 07:07 PM

Fair enough. I'm looking at it from more of a technical/gameplay/can-it-be-done point of view rather than an immersion/make-it-real/capture-that-same-feeling-again point of view.
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