MYSTcommunity: Order of the games - MYSTcommunity

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1

Order of the games Should I have played URU first?

#1 User is offline   DinoThrasher 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 07-August 09
  • Gender:Male
  • KI number:00804795

Posted 10 August 2009 - 07:13 PM

I'm completely confused about what is going on in Myst V. Who and what exactly are the Bahro? Why can everyone but me just randomly link anywhere at any time? What's with the weird bubbles? How do these slabs work? At first I assumed that Myst V just failed in numerous ways and I'll reach the end and feel "Why on earth was this considered a Myst game?" However, was a lot of this stuff answered (and answered WELL) in URU? Would playing URU before Myst V have allowed much of this to make more sense, or is it all really suppose to be this idiotically out of place?

Also, how is that Yeesha? Is it just me or did she have black hair when you first meet her in this game... Wasn't she blonde back in Myst IV?
0

#2 User is offline   Lostthyme 

  • Quab Wrangler
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 1,175
  • Joined: 07-April 08
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • KI number:00280695

Posted 10 August 2009 - 10:16 PM

URU... doesn't really explain things either. That's why End of Ages fails so much, in my opinion too. I'm still asking the same questions you are.
0

#3 User is offline   Talashar 

  • oglahneth (ancient one)
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Joined: 19-July 01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • KI number:00183867

Posted 11 August 2009 - 07:50 AM

View PostDinoThrasher, on Aug 10 2009, 06:13 PM, said:

Also, how is that Yeesha? Is it just me or did she have black hair when you first meet her in this game... Wasn't she blonde back in Myst IV?


Considering Yeesha was a child in Revelation, I find any changes in appearance far less distracting then, say, what happened to Achenar or to Catherine's voice. :arianna:
0

#4 User is offline   DinoThrasher 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 07-August 09
  • Gender:Male
  • KI number:00804795

Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:30 AM

The thing about Yeesha is I'll survive her looking funny, I mean, a child actor to a computer generated teenager are going to look different. However, when you make it painfully obvious the hair colors are different I feel there almost needs to be a reason. That doesn't change THAT much when you get older.

Ok, so it does kinda fail. I mean, it was fun, but I felt the puzzles weren't as well done as earlier game puzzles and the story... Umm... I'm going to just pretend it was all some kind of terrible dream and walk away. Prison Age/ Prison Book Canon stuff I understood, at least it still could be tweaked to fit well into Myst and Riven, this bubble and random linking thing doesn't seem to match up with any prior knowledge I have of the Myst worlds. I've played games I-V and read all 3 books, so I should have stumbled across something.
0

#5 User is offline   Zenoc2 

  • lontahn (discoverer)
  • Group: Veteran Member
  • Posts: 511
  • Joined: 21-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Free Country, USA
  • KI number:01951307

Posted 12 August 2009 - 08:40 AM

I guess I can understand all that. Except that Yeesha in Myst V is nowhere near teenage. :arianna:
0

#6 User is offline   DinoThrasher 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 07-August 09
  • Gender:Male
  • KI number:00804795

Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:52 PM

Blah, details. She looked awfully young to me. Either way I still stick to the idea that I fell immediately in love with cute little Yeesah during the globe ride into Tomahna in Myst IV and immediately hated everything about adult Yeesha when they changed her hair color, took away the cuteness, and mixed her up in some storyline that no longer made sense.
0

#7 User is offline   Talashar 

  • oglahneth (ancient one)
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Joined: 19-July 01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • KI number:00183867

Posted 13 August 2009 - 07:47 AM

View PostDinoThrasher, on Aug 12 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

...when they changed her hair color, took away the cuteness, and mixed her up in some storyline that no longer made sense.


Revelation actually changed her hair color from what it was in Uru, if I remember correctly. And I would argue the point about Revelation's storyline making sense. :arianna:
0

#8 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:13 PM

View PostDinoThrasher, questions edited into a list for by me so that my answers will make more sense, on Aug 10 2009, 06:13 PM, said:

I'm completely confused about what is going on in Myst V.
1.Who and what exactly are the Bahro?
2. Why can everyone but me just randomly link anywhere at any time?
3. What's with the weird bubbles? How do these slabs work?
4. However, was a lot of this stuff answered (and answered WELL) in URU?
5. Would playing URU before Myst V have allowed much of this to make more sense, or is it all really suppose to be this idiotically out of place?
6. Also, how is that Yeesha?
7. Is it just me or did she have black hair when you first meet her in this game... Wasn't she blonde back in Myst IV?

1. The bahro were presumably a slave race to the D'ni. However, they had the ability to go between Ages in ways that even the D'ni couldn't.
2. The bahro can link through naturally. It's some inborn ability. Yeesha is either "The Grower" or something very close. She has help from the bahro (not sure if they actually do all the work, or if she gets some of the essence of being able to do all these things). Esher has a torn off piece of bahro skin, specifically the part which appears to be connected with their ability to "link at will". He has studied this to the point where he can link through with it. I imagine that they to have their limitations. However, they aren't spending all their time running around and solving puzzles at everyone's whim. They can plan and stockpile and arrange for things so they can appear even more powerful than they are.
3. The bubbles are part of a bahro linking device (they may be the working part of it, or they may just be decoration). The slabs are simple slates that you can use to write messages. The bahro then read your messages and follow your commands. They also appear to form the keys for the lock around the Tablet.
4. The bahro appeared in Uru, and a lot was mentioned about them (especially if you are looking for it). The sources you have, though, are confused DRC reports and cryptic Yeesha, so the second requirement of the question may not be fulfilled.
5. Uru prepared me for most of the "out of place"-ness of EoA (not all of it, though - a lot of it was quite new), but it doesn't make much more sense of it (if you try to reconcile it with the rest of the series).
6. She's been through some tough times, and is somewhat crazy.
7. Yes and yes. She also had red hair (if I remember right) in Uru.
0

#9 User is offline   Free Bird 

  • oglahnth (ancient one)
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 4,874
  • Joined: 21-August 01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Voorschoten, The Netherlands
  • KI number:343012

Posted 14 August 2009 - 04:11 AM

View PostDinoThrasher, on Aug 11 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

That doesn't change THAT much when you get older.

Why wouldn't it? Besides, she could have dyed it.
0

#10 User is offline   Talashar 

  • oglahneth (ancient one)
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Joined: 19-July 01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • KI number:00183867

Posted 14 August 2009 - 08:41 AM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 13 2009, 05:13 PM, said:

1. The bahro were presumably a slave race to the D'ni.


I'd qualify this by adding that we don't know anything concrete about the nature of the enslavement. That's the one question I think End of Ages really should have answered...but didn't. :arianna:
0

#11 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 14 August 2009 - 12:14 PM

View PostTalashar, on Aug 14 2009, 07:41 AM, said:

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 13 2009, 05:13 PM, said:

1. The bahro were presumably a slave race to the D'ni.


I'd qualify this by adding that we don't know anything concrete about the nature of the enslavement. That's the one question I think End of Ages really should have answered...but didn't. :arianna:

Exactly. That's what the "presumably" was for. It is widely assumed that they were slaves, due to their subserviant attitude and Yeesha's cryptic hinting (she equates bahro with "the Least" a lot, a term the DRC tells us was used for a vague group below the lowest castes, for example). However, there is no definitive information about what exactly their relation with the D'ni was/is.
0

#12 User is offline   DinoThrasher 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 07-August 09
  • Gender:Male
  • KI number:00804795

Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:14 AM

Ok, thanks. I'll try to look for this stuff in URU. Maybe it was just overwhelming to have so much introduced in Myst V, but to me it took a perfectly good Myst formula of linking books, great puzzles, and indirect characterization, and changed it to this thing with Bahro, linking bubbles, tablets, ok puzzles (in my opinion), and so many monologues that instead of looking forward to character interaction like I did in previous games because it meant I wasn't isolated and it tended to reveal a lot in a short amount of time, I was ready to strangle Escher (or whatever his name is, I couldn't understand his accent sometimes) every time I turned the corner and saw him leaning on a rock.

For the Bahro and their ability to link, is it ever explained very well why they can do this and how it's connected to the art? After 4 games of being taught that linking was part of writing descriptive books that then took you to new places, why are we suddenly expected to just believe that there is a creature called Bahro that just naturally do it? Do they have a home world, or are they some super creature that exists between worlds because of their linking power? And why does the tablet have power over them? Yeesha mentioned it had something to do with the art didn't she? Is the art something the D'ni were able to steal from the Bahro and convert into their writings? Why does the snake prevent Bahro from linking, what power does this symbol have over them? Again, I think my problem with the Bahro is that it wasn't explained very well at all, just sort of given to you, and takes much too far of a leap from the normal Myst setup.

And the whole Yeesha thing, I'm still stuck on the hair color. Why would you give her 3 hair colors, it seems like a minor detail but to me it seems to separate Yeesha in all of the games, making her more like 3 completely different characters instead of one. No reason to completely mess with Yeesha. She dye it seems like a pretty weak excuse, I mean, why would she? She talks like she's so busy with her Growing and Desert Bird stuff when was she suppose to find the time to dye her own hair?

Another problem I have with Myst V is I miss Atrus, but I can't really say the game sucks because of it so I won't be annoying about that.
0

#13 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:58 PM

View PostDinoThrasher, on Aug 17 2009, 07:14 AM, said:

Ok, thanks. I'll try to look for this stuff in URU. Maybe it was just overwhelming to have so much introduced in Myst V, but to me it took a perfectly good Myst formula of linking books, great puzzles, and indirect characterization, and changed it to this thing with Bahro, linking bubbles, tablets, ok puzzles (in my opinion), and so many monologues that instead of looking forward to character interaction like I did in previous games because it meant I wasn't isolated and it tended to reveal a lot in a short amount of time, I was ready to strangle Escher (or whatever his name is, I couldn't understand his accent sometimes) every time I turned the corner and saw him leaning on a rock.

We all want to strangle Esher.

Quote

For the Bahro and their ability to link, is it ever explained very well why they can do this and how it's connected to the art?

Answer 1: It might be a completely different thing. Think of a linking book as a bridge between two islands (Ages). Bahro can just swim.
Answer 2: The D'ni Art may be based somewhat off of the bahro. It could be that the D'ni (actually, the Ronay at that time) learned the way to go between Ages from the bahro. Since Ronay minds and craft skills were different from the bahro, they made a written language to control this. Or, the bahro might somehow "power" linking books (either by some kind of mystical tie, or something more physical like blood or skin).
Answer 3: Something else entirely.
Pick your favorite answer.

Quote

After 4 games of being taught that linking was part of writing descriptive books that then took you to new places, why are we suddenly expected to just believe that there is a creature called Bahro that just naturally do it? Do they have a home world, or are they some super creature that exists between worlds because of their linking power?

With the amount of Ages (a gigantic, even if finite, amount according to canon), it is quite likely that such a thing could happen. Other than that, there wasn't much hinting at such a thing being possible.
The bahro may have a home world, and appear to maneuver and react well in mildly Earthlike areas (the D'ni Ages). They are tangible creatures, and can be restrained. Noloben is noted (by Esher) to be a very bahro influenced Age, perhaps a home (a homeworld or a settlement? or the whole group or of just a portion? we don't know).

Quote

And why does the tablet have power over them? Yeesha mentioned it had something to do with the art didn't she? Is the art something the D'ni were able to steal from the Bahro and convert into their writings? Why does the snake prevent Bahro from linking, what power does this symbol have over them?

The Tablet appears to be connected to the D'ni Art. It appears to be bahro technology or make, and seems to have a very powerful effect on the bahro. This might be from a very powerful cultural stigma (the bahro might have been slaves for over 10,000 years, which would mean their culture would be almost entirely made by the D'ni to keep them enslaved), or a kind of mystical or practical force. The snake is feared by the bahro (its poison might disable their ability to link or move), and the symbol generally indicates the presence or future presence of snakes (since they have a strong compulsion to fulfill the symbols that are given to them, they would be bringing in snakes when they were given the symbol).

Quote

And the whole Yeesha thing, I'm still stuck on the hair color. Why would you give her 3 hair colors, it seems like a minor detail but to me it seems to separate Yeesha in all of the games, making her more like 3 completely different characters instead of one. No reason to completely mess with Yeesha. She dye it seems like a pretty weak excuse, I mean, why would she?

People dye their hair all the time. She's also gotten a tattoo and different clothing, which would take about the same amount of time. It could be that she likes the different colors at different times (and with her personality swings and craziness, I wouldn't put it past her to dye her hair just for that). She could also dye it to symbolize a change or to perform a ceremony.

Also, by Uru/EoA, she might be graying (especially with all the stress). To cover up her gray hairs (because she wouldn't like the look, to fit with her styles, or because she thought it wouldn't give her as much respect - I don't know) she might dye her hair. The availability of hair dyes and her personal (changing) preference could explain changes even after this.
0

#14 User is offline   Lostthyme 

  • Quab Wrangler
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 1,175
  • Joined: 07-April 08
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA
  • KI number:00280695

Posted 17 August 2009 - 06:09 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 17 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

Answer 1: It might be a completely different thing. Think of a linking book as a bridge between two islands (Ages). Bahro can just swim.

That's a really interesting way to put it. Thinking too much about it makes my head hurt.

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 17 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

Answer 2: The D'ni Art may be based somewhat off of the bahro. It could be that the D'ni (actually, the Ronay at that time) learned the way to go between Ages from the bahro. Since Ronay minds and craft skills were different from the bahro, they made a written language to control this. Or, the bahro might somehow "power" linking books (either by some kind of mystical tie, or something more physical like blood or skin).

Bahro skin leather covers, or bahro blood mixed in the ink, perhaps?

Puts a whole new meaning to why they kept the manufacturing of those things so secretive. D:
0

#15 User is offline   DinoThrasher 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 07-August 09
  • Gender:Male
  • KI number:00804795

Posted 17 August 2009 - 07:19 PM

View PostLostthyme, on Aug 17 2009, 08:09 PM, said:

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 17 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

Answer 1: It might be a completely different thing. Think of a linking book as a bridge between two islands (Ages). Bahro can just swim.

That's a really interesting way to put it. Thinking too much about it makes my head hurt.

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 17 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

Answer 2: The D'ni Art may be based somewhat off of the bahro. It could be that the D'ni (actually, the Ronay at that time) learned the way to go between Ages from the bahro. Since Ronay minds and craft skills were different from the bahro, they made a written language to control this. Or, the bahro might somehow "power" linking books (either by some kind of mystical tie, or something more physical like blood or skin).

Bahro skin leather covers, or bahro blood mixed in the ink, perhaps?

Puts a whole new meaning to why they kept the manufacturing of those things so secretive. D:


Hmmm... I suppose special ink would make sense. Wasn't Gehn looking for special books and ink in BoA? Of course, he also only used words from other books so his theories might not be completely reliable.

But if that IS true, where are all the new ages coming from? Atrus and Yeesha aren't going to allow Bahro killing and I can't imagine there was a limitless supply of books and inks just lying in a D'ni vault somewhere.

I think the Bahro tablet is important, because of the way Yeesha talks about it with the art. However, if it is power of the tablet, how were the D'ni harnessing it?
0

#16 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:41 PM

View PostDinoThrasher, on Aug 17 2009, 06:19 PM, said:

Hmmm... I suppose special ink would make sense. Wasn't Gehn looking for special books and ink in BoA? Of course, he also only used words from other books so his theories might not be completely reliable.

The D'ni did indeed use special ink and special paper to make linking books, and the guilds responsible for making them kept the recipes very secret.

Quote

But if that IS true, where are all the new ages coming from? Atrus and Yeesha aren't going to allow Bahro killing and I can't imagine there was a limitless supply of books and inks just lying in a D'ni vault somewhere.

There are several possibilities
1. Fewer people writing books. We don't know what the D'ni in Releeshahn do (rationing bookmaking supplies, recycling old books, who knows), and there aren't that many humans around who can write.
2. There may be a way to create the materials synthetically.
3. There could be a way to get whatever material could possibly be necessary in a way that does no lasting harm to a bahro (and this can be traded or given by the bahro to humans/D'ni).

Quote

I think the Bahro tablet is important, because of the way Yeesha talks about it with the art. However, if it is power of the tablet, how were the D'ni harnessing it?

I know that some of the concept drawings for it say "Rosetta Tablet" or something like that. Maybe it teaches linking, or "translates" one style of linking commands (books) to another?
0

#17 User is offline   DinoThrasher 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 07-August 09
  • Gender:Male
  • KI number:00804795

Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:45 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 17 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

Quote

I think the Bahro tablet is important, because of the way Yeesha talks about it with the art. However, if it is power of the tablet, how were the D'ni harnessing it?

I know that some of the concept drawings for it say "Rosetta Tablet" or something like that. Maybe it teaches linking, or "translates" one style of linking commands (books) to another?


Ah, interesting, that's sorta how I was thinking of it. The age isn't written in any old language, it has to be written using the special D'ni language. My theory was it works almost like magic glyphs do. A glyph can require special inks and papers depending on what kind of fantasy you are going into, and glyphs are their own unique language. In Myst V, you write special symbols on the slabs that tell the Bahro what kind of linking powers they should use, these symbols also portal you across ages. If the D'ni language is a similar form of communication as these symbols or a way of describing these symbols, would a complex book of "glyphs" written on Bahro skin with Bahro blood work in the same way that Esher's cloak does, in that the glyphs are activated through the Bahro and then creates what is written i.e. a new age?

Edit: I just beat URU and
Click to reveal hidden content
heard Yeesha talk about her writing and explain a little about why she's so great. It's the symbols in the back of the Relto book, which remind me of the symbols from Myst V that the Bahro read. This again leads me to my glyph theory. Is her writing superior because her writing isn't a hollow reflection of the Bahro power that the D'ni had, but the true Art, as the Bahro use it with the symbols or "glyphs"?

0

#18 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

  • MEMBER TITLE!
  • Group: Team Member
  • Posts: 2,841
  • Joined: 12-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:P.O box 233, Allapo, RVN
  • KI number:06087960

Posted 18 August 2009 - 11:37 AM

View PostDinoThrasher, on Aug 17 2009, 07:45 PM, said:

Ah, interesting, that's sorta how I was thinking of it. The age isn't written in any old language, it has to be written using the special D'ni language. My theory was it works almost like magic glyphs do. A glyph can require special inks and papers depending on what kind of fantasy you are going into, and glyphs are their own unique language. In Myst V, you write special symbols on the slabs that tell the Bahro what kind of linking powers they should use, these symbols also portal you across ages. If the D'ni language is a similar form of communication as these symbols or a way of describing these symbols, would a complex book of "glyphs" written on Bahro skin with Bahro blood work in the same way that Esher's cloak does, in that the glyphs are activated through the Bahro and then creates what is written i.e. a new age?

First off, according to Atrus and others, Ages are not created. Books just create links to already present Ages (but they may also, perhaps, effect the Ages somewhat, causing imbalances).

However, I agree that D'ni writing is a lot like that. I don't think that they use an unmodified bahro script (probably a more D'ni modification of the bahro writing, that fit with their style and previous written language better), but it is a different script than their normal one.

Quote

Edit: I just beat URU and
Click to reveal hidden content
heard Yeesha talk about her writing and explain a little about why she's so great. It's the symbols in the back of the Relto book, which remind me of the symbols from Myst V that the Bahro read. This again leads me to my glyph theory. Is her writing superior because her writing isn't a hollow reflection of the Bahro power that the D'ni had, but the true Art, as the Bahro use it with the symbols or "glyphs"?

Click to reveal hidden content
I think it's quite probable that Yeesha has borrowed a lot of linking knowledge from the bahro. Their mode of Age linking seems to allow for a lot more power (and, I'm sure, weaknesses that we just don't see). Bahro linking can link through the same Age (unless they just use the many different similar copies of an Age or something), can follow with the linker, and requires different materials than D'ni writing. If Yeesha learned a bahro script and way of writing, instead of the D'ni Art that was a simplified version of some kind, she could potentially do quite a lot of impressive things (D'ni writing, I'd imagine, is much like a computer coding language that is made to be more user friendly and sacrifices some of the potential things it could do for that).

0

#19 User is offline   DinoThrasher 

  • glotahn (beginner)
  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 163
  • Joined: 07-August 09
  • Gender:Male
  • KI number:00804795

Posted 18 August 2009 - 11:59 AM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Aug 18 2009, 01:37 PM, said:

First off, according to Atrus and others, Ages are not created. Books just create links to already present Ages (but they may also, perhaps, effect the Ages somewhat, causing imbalances).


Oops, ya, your right. That's what I meant, I just worded it wrong by saying "create ages" when it's the books that are created, and the ages that are linked to.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users