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What would have made Exile even better? Since we've had ones for Riven and Uru...

#1 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:21 PM

What would you, if you could go back in time and throw advice/cash/technology at the team working on Exile, change about the game?

There's the obvious technical improvements. No fuzzy or pixely patches, no really blurry Saavedro videos, no fake looking wood in Tomahna.

Day/night cycles would be beautiful, especially in J'nanin. Weather would also be nice (maybe not in Edanna [both because it wouldn't show that much in some parts, and because it would make the other parts even more impossible to find my way around in], but in Voltaic and Amateria), and lots more animals.

Animals. Let's see... We need some kind of frog - Voltaic seems like a good place for that. Also add some vultures or something. And bugs. Amateria would have lots of strange, perhaps even glowing, fish. More squees and such in Edanna. Probably some sea birds for J'nanin.

"Breathtaking, isn't it?" Actually, I found that view to be ugly (sorry, Catherine). It fit in the whole scene pretty well, but I just didn't like it that much. I'd give the place a nicer view, more like what we saw in Myst IV. On a related note, I'd make that whole beginning part a little clearer (just starting with the Stranger waiting there on a bench or something, or showing him walking through more of Tomahna to finally get there).

Or perhaps change the beginning even more. It was a valiant effort to make a peaceful beginning that just suddenly turned bad (which was done really well in Myst IV), but I don't think it worked as well as it might have. It was just an awkward size - too long to be exhiliratingly whirlwindish like Riven and too short to be much of anything else. Maybe it could be replaced with Atrus already being there (kind of like Riven). We'd have a friendly Catherine and Atrus talk (to the Stranger, of course, but without him/her needing to respond) that would cover the basics (Atrus is paranoid, what Releeshan is, who Yeesha is, etc.) and then Saavedro would come in and we'd dash after him.

Also, the Releeshahn book dilemma could be more explicitly explained. Why would that all be lost with Saavedro just taking one book? Same with the flimsy inability of Saavedro to just get through/over the inner shield.

All the Ages would look dustier and rustier and muddier. I'd probably change Amateria's whole structure around (yes it's my favorite Age, but the puzzles are a little obvious). Instead of an obvious rollercoaster with several puzzles that would shatter it if they weren't worked out right, I'd make it... I'm not sure. Just no levitating platforms, and some reasoning behind the various puzzles.
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#2 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 03:31 PM

Those all sound like good changes. I really like the weather one. It would be really neat if the weather in the distance in Amateria actually reached you and it started storming.

I was going to suggest a change to the beginning, but halfway through typing it I realized just how many more technical issues it would raise. :arianna:
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#3 User is offline   Johnraka 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 04:08 PM

View PostLostthyme, on Aug 27 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

Those all sound like good changes. I really like the weather one. It would be really neat if the weather in the distance in Amateria actually reached you and it started storming.

I was going to suggest a change to the beginning, but halfway through typing it I realized just how many more technical issues it would raise. :arianna:



Yes, all sounds good to me, and yes, all of the ages would look better if they were 'aged' a bit, Riven got that bit absolutely right.
Yes, weather changes would be good and a 'roam anywhere' option (as in Uru).. Yup!
That'l do it for me...
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#4 User is offline   Prince Sunner 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 04:28 PM

I'd ask for extra videos for that weight puzzle in Amateria so you could visually get an idea how heavy the blocks are. I was relying on the video to tell me whether the blocks were too light or too heavy, but since there only seems to be two possibilities (excluding the one for the correct combination), it turned into a guessing game.

Speaking of which, those little figures in Atrus's study that gave clues to the different ages? I'd actually put them in the relevant ages because I think Atrus's study was a place most of us skipped over. We probably weren't aware that the things gave clues to the ages, and I certainly never noticed the ball weight that would have helped for Amateria. Maybe I just wasn't in the Riven mindset where you keep track of every little thing, but I know other people missed that important detail about Amateria.

And given that neat trick on J'nannin where you rotate one of the light poles and its shadow changes - while still being able to look around - I would have liked for more of the movies to allow you to look around. Just make the game seem even more dynamic. Maybe the first time around force the view so the player pays attention, then on later replays allow you to look wherever you want.

And I really, really wanted those cool pans I saw in the trailer. Remember that smooth pan down the stairs or the pan up to the descending book? Pans that we didn't see in the actual game.
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#5 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 05:34 PM

View PostPrince Sunner, on Aug 27 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

I'd ask for extra videos for that weight puzzle in Amateria so you could visually get an idea how heavy the blocks are. I was relying on the video to tell me whether the blocks were too light or too heavy, but since there only seems to be two possibilities (excluding the one for the correct combination), it turned into a guessing game.

Speaking of which, those little figures in Atrus's study that gave clues to the different ages? I'd actually put them in the relevant ages because I think Atrus's study was a place most of us skipped over. We probably weren't aware that the things gave clues to the ages, and I certainly never noticed the ball weight that would have helped for Amateria. Maybe I just wasn't in the Riven mindset where you keep track of every little thing, but I know other people missed that important detail about Amateria.

And given that neat trick on J'nannin where you rotate one of the light poles and its shadow changes - while still being able to look around - I would have liked for more of the movies to allow you to look around. Just make the game seem even more dynamic. Maybe the first time around force the view so the player pays attention, then on later replays allow you to look wherever you want.

And I really, really wanted those cool pans I saw in the trailer. Remember that smooth pan down the stairs or the pan up to the descending book? Pans that we didn't see in the actual game.

Yes, the trailers had some really awesome bits that weren't in the game (the pans, the water effects).

Being able to look around when doing stuff would be nice, as well as more various effects like in Myst IV (the water, wind, animals, fire...).

And maybe instead of moving the various clues (because it does make sense that Saavedro would keep them in the J'nanin house where he lives), the clues could be placed a little more prominently. Maybe have the first floor be more of a greenhouse entryway with some space for Saavedro's hammock and all, then have the top area have the desk (and a smaller cage for the Narayan book - more of the size of the other book carrying cages).

The technology they used in Myst V to write on the tablets - that would be nice for the Age symbols (it might make them hard to notice, though). We could even have the paper come out of the back of Atrus or Saavedro's journals).

Speaking of the journals, Atrus' could be improved. Saavedro's is excellent, but Atrus' isn't up to the brilliance of his Riven journal or suchlike. Especially the really obvious hints it's making (and how convenient that he thought over these right before Saavedro comes in and sends his friend over to the Ages with their poem's defaced).
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#6 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 06:07 PM

Oh, I just remembered. I would want them to change the counterbalance thing on Amateria. It takes so stinking long to drag a piece all of the way across the screen to where you put it.
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#7 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 06:29 PM

I'd definitely say that either the game needs to be real-time or Edanna needs an overhaul. I never know where I am in that Age.

I'd also suggest redesigning the entire Lesson Age concept, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Atrus promises to teach you the Great and Terrible Secrets of the Art, but gives you a handful of aphorisms and amusement park rides; no wonder Sirrus and Achenar felt deprived! Probably the easiest way to do this while keeping the game basically the same is to have J'nanin and so forth be fun challenges that Atrus set up for his sons to go through on their way to actual lessons in Narayan.
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#8 User is offline   The Stranger 

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 07:12 PM

The ability to run from Saavedro :arianna:
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#9 User is offline   albino 

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 03:16 AM

The game lacks all the background story details that shine through in most of the other games. For each and every object put into the game, someone should ask "where did this come from, when and how was it made, who made it, why did they make it this particular way, was it changed at some point" etc. Once you start to ask those questions you'll soon realize you simple need to have a good back story, and then the answers to these questions will come naturally.

One example is the intricate organic/ornament architecture style in the ages. If they were in fact lesson ages, built by one man, it would be absolutely necessary to cut the crap and build everything as simply and pragmaticly as possible.

Riven gets this right in most places. It's usually obvious whether something was created by the natives or Gehn, judging from the style and materials. (However, there is one major question that Riven never answers, presumably for gameplay reasons: where does all the metal and gold come from??)


The single major crit on Exile here would probably be the lit candles in Amateria... I mean WHO lit those? Are they magic never-burn-out-candles?
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#10 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 11:51 AM

View PostLostthyme, on Aug 27 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

Oh, I just remembered. I would want them to change the counterbalance thing on Amateria. It takes so stinking long to drag a piece all of the way across the screen to where you put it.

Oh yeah, that was annoying. I hated just about every single part of that puzzle (other than the math part).

View PostTalashar, on Aug 27 2009, 05:29 PM, said:

I'd definitely say that either the game needs to be real-time or Edanna needs an overhaul. I never know where I am in that Age.

I'm not sure realtime would help that much. It's not like Channelwood, where everything looks the same because everything is basically the same (same water, very similar trees, same pathway, same shaped houses...). It's confusing in a more organic way that I think we'd get lost in it even if we where there ourselves.

Quote

I'd also suggest redesigning the entire Lesson Age concept, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Atrus promises to teach you the Great and Terrible Secrets of the Art, but gives you a handful of aphorisms and amusement park rides; no wonder Sirrus and Achenar felt deprived! Probably the easiest way to do this while keeping the game basically the same is to have J'nanin and so forth be fun challenges that Atrus set up for his sons to go through on their way to actual lessons in Narayan.

Or perhaps three Ages that Atrus wrote to show various things you could do with the Art (not in the mystical phrases way: the strange materials in Amateria, the various power sources you could utilize in Voltaic, the ecosystems you could write in Edanna) - with fun things put in to keep the kids excited. The ball ride in Amateria would be purely for fun, I think. Voltaic's blimp would be a way to go back to the beginning without having to backtrack (and it would allow Atrus to show the kids different views of the dam and such, and show how the power could be utilized in a fun way). The puzzles could be demonstrations of different things (with different results for different combinations - for example the Voltaic circuit board could be used to power other things in Voltaic [which the Stranger doesn't care about]). Then Atrus could show them the books for each Age and show how everything worked (except he would stop before this due to doubts about their character).

View Postalbino, on Aug 28 2009, 02:16 AM, said:

The game lacks all the background story details that shine through in most of the other games. For each and every object put into the game, someone should ask "where did this come from, when and how was it made, who made it, why did they make it this particular way, was it changed at some point" etc. Once you start to ask those questions you'll soon realize you simple need to have a good back story, and then the answers to these questions will come naturally.

One example is the intricate organic/ornament architecture style in the ages. If they were in fact lesson ages, built by one man, it would be absolutely necessary to cut the crap and build everything as simply and pragmaticly as possible.

Atrus would have help from various Ages (since the various Ages mentioned in Myst would be populated at this time), and he has some liking for dramatic architectural touches. However, I do agree that it would be better if everything showed that it was, in fact, made at some time by some person (and not just a shiny door or something that just came in from nowhere). They could even tie this into Myst more by having Atrus mention (in journals or inscriptions or holograms) various people from Mechanical or Stoneship or something that worked on a certain building or puzzle. We might even learn of Saavedro in one of those (smoothly transitioning to information about him). Also, Saavedro's work would need to be more prevalent and more visible (in ways that show his background and working style).
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#11 User is offline   Johannes 

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 02:45 PM

What would make Exile even better...
The aspect of some stones in J'nanin was a bit artificial.
Even more plants in Edanna.
Make Voltaic look a bit less boring, I don't know how (maybe some fossils on the rocks of the canyon, or waves outside).

But overall, redo the voiceover of the french version, like entirely. Especially for Saavedro. He sounds like he has no emotion at all.
And give us the music too. It simply isn't there in the french version, just a bit at the beginning and the end. WHYYY, WHYYYY? :arianna:
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#12 User is offline   realXCV 

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 04:46 PM

- Better camera movements
- (The ability to move or resize the window when playing in windowed mode)
- Add another music track in Voltaic
- Better water effects (especially in J'nanin)
- The ability to Alt-Tab and still be able to play the game without having to patch it.


View PostJohannes, on Aug 28 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

And give us the music too. It simply isn't there in the french version, just a bit at the beginning and the end. WHYYY, WHYYYY? :arianna:


Yes, it's there.
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#13 User is offline   ZapperJet 

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 07:55 AM

- The textures were weathered a bit more. Presto Studios didn't really do much to push the graphics as much as they had said.
- Voltaic needs a larger puzzle area. The entire place seemed excessively limited.
- J'nanin's rock texture repeated over the terrain many times, that is a BIG no no!
- Edanna needs a map
- Turn down the specular lighting on all of the objects. Everything looks like plastic. Example:

Posted Image

Which looks more realistic to you?

Cheers,
John
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#14 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 01:43 PM

View PostZapperJet, on Sep 1 2009, 06:55 AM, said:

- Voltaic needs a larger puzzle area. The entire place seemed excessively limited.

I never noticed that, but now that I think of it...

Quote

- Edanna needs a map

Yeah, that would have been nice. And surely Saavedro would need some help with such things as well. Or maybe he could have marked the path somehow (with colors to indicate different paths or something).
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#15 User is offline   MicroProcessor 

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 05:46 AM

Personally, Myst III and Riven have switched places multiple times on lists of what my favorite Myst game was, but eventually Riven became steadily on the top. The reason Riven surpassed it is because I think Myst III is set up in a way that makes too much sense. Every major place in it is equal in terms of value placed on it, but that makes the game seem a tad too unrealistic/predictable in my opinion. For example Myst has some elements of it's ages only present in a few of them and not others,
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namely the page torn in two only being present in Channelwood and Stoneship. Also, I thought it was cool that Selenitic was the only age that didn't include Sirrus and Achenar's rooms.

Exile could have maybe had some random journal entry necessary for a puzzle in J'nanin found in Amateria. Unfortunately, this would likely not mesh well with the theme of the game. Otherwise I can't think of much else that hasn't already been said. There probably is something that I'm not thinking of.
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#16 User is offline   Mystress 

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 08:49 PM

I see your point, Micro, and I too hold a spot for Riven in my heart, but I think there's a reason for Myst III's predictability. Remember that J'nanin and its ages were meant to be lesson ages, therefore the way they mesh is going to seem a bit heavy-handed. Your mileage may vary, but I personally thought this only added more to the game's backstory and was a nice break between Riven and Revelation. I mean, really - I love a challenge, and while Riven's made sense, Revelation's did not. At least Riven's difficulty was a) at the request of fans who desired a challenge, and b) relatively equal throughout the entire game. Revelation's was really uneven - the Spider chair, while rough, was not as tough as the mangree puzzle - and it felt more like fighting a final boss than solving a puzzle. Also, be aware that Exile's gentler difficulty was Presto's idea - they felt that the reason so many people had issues with Myst and Riven was the difficulty, hence the easier puzzles. Then again, I love Exile and felt it was one of the best games in the series, so you may or may not agree with me.

Just thought I'd whack you guys with the Myst Series History hammer a few times. Sorry for any bruises. :) :D

That said, I would like to see some things added:

- Better graphical mapping. I personally love the more garish, cartoonish style of Exile's graphics and feel it makes the game feel all the more disorienting and dreamy, but it would be nice to make it feel a bit more real.
- Weathering on some stuff. Not everything felt old enough.
- Weather effects, and day/night shifts would be awesome.
- The grainy videos are a bit annoying; I'd love to see them be smoother.

The rest, I don't have an issue with at all. :)
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#17 User is offline   MicroProcessor 

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 01:13 PM

The lesson ages theme was what I meant when I said the slightly less predictable pattern wouldn't mesh well if it was applied to the game. Though, by unbalancing it, I mean for example that certain aspects of the puzzles on J'nanin even could be found only in clues on the lesson ages themselves perhaps (which could make sense with the theme if it somehow was related to Saavedro's scattering of everything). To achieve the feel, I think it would also be cool if that symbol at the end of each of the lesson ages wasn't automatically drawn (somehow, I don't know what would work to replace that idea for back on J'nanin to input the symbol in to the machine though) and you could still move around the rest of the age once you found it, so that you felt less like you were in an loop of it being such a definite end aside from the cool rides. It just wasn't as interconnected as I think it could have been, the only other Myst game with ages as isolated from each other as Myst III is EoA, which I don't really even think deserves to be compared to Myst III.

Exile overall is awesome though, and I think that really having the ages more connected to each other probably would be the main thing that would make it better in my opinion. Otherwise it definitely is one of the best games in the series I think.

Also, I do see what you mean though with the way Myst IV didn't make sense with the "final boss" puzzle in Haven, I actually thought that puzzle was more illogical than challenging, but I think that's more just about fallacy in a single puzzle, not the way the realism of the unbalance of everything is set up. Anyways this is going on weird tangents...
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#18 User is offline   Allatwan 

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 09:53 AM

Those are all awesome changes, but since we're talking about Exile, I've a question: what is that book with the number 5 (well, I don't quite remember, but I think it was the number 5) on it and to which you can't link, with all the dark swirly things. Is it an old linking book to Riven that can't work anymore since the Age was destroyed?
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#19 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 10:26 AM

View PostAllatwan, on Sep 7 2009, 10:53 AM, said:

Those are all awesome changes, but since we're talking about Exile, I've a question: what is that book with the number 5 (well, I don't quite remember, but I think it was the number 5) on it and to which you can't link, with all the dark swirly things. Is it an old linking book to Riven that can't work anymore since the Age was destroyed?


Yep. Riven was called Age Five by Gehn, so I think it's safe to assume it links to there. I guess that was their attempt to tie Exile in with Riven.
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#20 User is offline   Allatwan 

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 01:05 PM

Hmmm hmm.... Yeah, I guess that's true. Though I've got ANOTHER question: in the begining Katran says it's been ten years since Riven... but HOW did the Stranger link to Tomahna then? And why did it take so long before he actually went to see Atrus again? I mean, weren't they supposed to be "friends"?
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#21 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 01:52 PM

View PostAllatwan, on Sep 7 2009, 12:05 PM, said:

Hmmm hmm.... Yeah, I guess that's true. Though I've got ANOTHER question: in the begining Katran says it's been ten years since Riven... but HOW did the Stranger link to Tomahna then? And why did it take so long before he actually went to see Atrus again? I mean, weren't they supposed to be "friends"?

Tomahna is a place on Earth, somewhere near the Cleft. The Fissure dropped the Stranger on Earth presumably near the Cleft in New Mexico (where all the other things that fell from Riven ended up as seen in Uru). The Stranger then had to adjust back to living on Earth, which could include any of the following hassles: injuries from the fall from the Fissure, reuniting with family, explaining his/her absence to the authorities, getting a place to live, getting a job, etc. This would occupy the Stranger for quite awhile. Also remember that the Stranger and Atrus both don't know that Earth = D'ni. To both of them, the Stranger's return would seem final - there would be no way to be able to travel both ways (unless there could be a safe way to return to the Fissure, or Atrus wrote a linking book from Earth).

So, the Stranger was back in Earth. Atrus, meanwhile, was adjusting back to living with his wife and saving the world(s) on his own. Eventually, he got enough help from Age dwellers to break out of K'veer. Then he began gathering the D'ni refugees together again. Through many adventures (including those in the Book of D'ni), they tried to build a home for themselves in D'ni or another Age. Finally, they decided to have Atrus write a new Age to be their home. This would be Releeshahn. Catherine says that, around this time, Atrus decided that his family should have their own home to. He decided to go up the D'ni tunnels to an area near the Cleft (where he was raised) to build what would be Tomahna. Somehow, while he was living here, he and the Stranger met. Now that the Stranger knew he was there, he could ride/walk/whatever into Tomahna just like any other similarly distanced place on Earth (and we'll assume the Stranger could get to that area fairly easily since he was able to get to the Myst book which presumably fell nearby).
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#22 User is offline   Allatwan 

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:09 PM

Oh, OK, so Tomahna's on Earth? I always thought it was another age made to look like the Cleft... lol, yeah, that made no sense! :D
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#23 User is offline   MagnumVsRockford 

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 03:51 PM

having the cursur change when you can go somewhere. getting lost was a reason I never finished exile (until now that is, since im trying again)
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