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Dr. Watson? Surely not /the/ Doctor Watson, right?

#1 User is offline   penguindude 

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 09:29 PM

Well, I had seen quite a few comments on here that you play a "Dr. Watson" in the final Myst game. My first and only explanation is that they're reffering to Sherlock Holmes's sidekick, but I know that's ridiculous.

I did a search, and can't find anything about who he is, except "You play Doctor Watson in the fifth Myst game." Which is completely unhelpful.

So can anyone elaborate? =)
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#2 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 09:35 PM

View Postpenguindude, on Sep 18 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

Well, I had seen quite a few comments on here that you play a "Dr. Watson" in the final Myst game. My first and only explanation is that they're reffering to Sherlock Holmes's sidekick, but I know that's ridiculous.

I did a search, and can't find anything about who he is, except "You play Doctor Watson in the fifth Myst game." Which is completely unhelpful.

So can anyone elaborate? =)


This MYSTlore article explains who he is. :D
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#3 User is offline   Thestrangered 

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:38 AM

Before the flaming goes around, I wanted to say you are not the only one who doesn't like it. It was a stupid thing from Cyan Worlds' side >_<
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#4 User is offline   Allatwan 

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 12:57 PM

I know! I read that article last year! It disapointed me so much! :D
To me, the Stranger's the player, not Watson! Who cares if Cyan says differently! ^^
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#5 User is offline   ddb174 

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 02:14 PM

I'm also in the camp that refuses to accept that Watson is the Stranger. I'm going to need the original Myst team to all sign off on that one, before I would even be willing to accept it ;)
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#6 User is offline   Allatwan 

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 02:16 PM

Hahah! :D Well, I bet you'd get enough voices here on MC to get a great petition started! ^^
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#7 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 03:02 PM

View Postddb174, on Sep 19 2009, 01:14 PM, said:

I'm also in the camp that refuses to accept that Watson is the Stranger. I'm going to need the original Myst team to all sign off on that one, before I would even be willing to accept it :D

Since the character just mentioned it in Uru, he could be lying.

And remember, the statement just means that he was the Stranger in EoA, not in all the other games (because that would make him really really old). I guess they found some need to explain how someone could be the Stranger in EoA even though it was set way after the other games (in its internal canon, and in Uru's).
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#8 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 05:13 AM

I'm always rather amazed to see that people care so much about which character they're playing in a game. :D
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#9 User is offline   luna 

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 10:52 AM

I always play all myst games as myself. I know there's a 200 year gap in the timeline, but why should I worry about a time jump of 2 centuries while I use Linking books and journey cloths?

[philosophize]
maybe the timelines of myst and earth aren't the same and is a year on myst shorter than a year on earth.

[/philosophize]
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#10 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 02:55 PM

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I'm always rather amazed to see that people care so much about which character they're playing in a game.

I know. I just play myself and only note who myself technically is when I'm outside of the game.

Quote

[philosophize]
maybe the timelines of myst and earth aren't the same and is a year on myst shorter than a year on earth.

[/philosophize]

Since Myst is presumably on some different planet (we don't know for sure that it's on a planet at all, but we assume that), it quite probably has a different year than Earth years. Of course, your body wouldn't care about this, and would age (I accidentally typed that as "Age" :D ) according to Earth years. Now if it changed time itself, that could possibly change things.
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#11 User is offline   Free Bird 

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 05:03 PM

I'm also part of the "I'm not Dr. Watson, never have been, never will be" camp. :D
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#12 User is offline   Shinkansen 

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 06:28 PM

View Postddb174, on Sep 19 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

I'm also in the camp that refuses to accept that Watson is the Stranger. I'm going to need the original Myst team to all sign off on that one, before I would even be willing to accept it :D

There's a camp? For THAT theory?? Ok....

What I want to know is, if Cyan and all its employees exist in-game, is there both a RAWA and a Dr. Watson? The character of Dr. Richard A. Watson is based off of the real-life employee of Cyan named Richard A. Watson. Are they just two very similar people, the same person, or the result of a cloning conspiracy? Or is Dr. Watson just a fabrication of Cyan, created in order to infiltrate the DRC to get information for making Myst games?
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#13 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 06:54 PM

View PostShinkansen, on Sep 20 2009, 07:28 PM, said:

What I want to know is, if Cyan and all its employees exist in-game, is there both a RAWA and a Dr. Watson? The character of Dr. Richard A. Watson is based off of the real-life employee of Cyan named Richard A. Watson. Are they just two very similar people, the same person, or the result of a cloning conspiracy? Or is Dr. Watson just a fabrication of Cyan, created in order to infiltrate the DRC to get information for making Myst games?


Aaahhh... the paradoxes... my brain hurts.

And along those lines, what about Atrus and Rand? That would be kind of hard to explain to Yeesha if she ever met him. :D
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#14 User is offline   Free Bird 

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 03:14 AM

Here's a very simple explanation. Myst and Riven, plus Myst III and IV to a lesser degree, all make sense logically, with a few very minor exceptions. Every detail has been thought out and while they're essentially fictional, the fiction is so perfect that we might as well pretend they are real (if we suspend our disbelief about linking and such). Uru, on the other hand, is filled with little and big things that really don't make sense and aren't ever going to make sense, because Cyan had to make sacrifices to keep the game (it is a game, after all) playable.

In other words, it's not the Myst series but the Uru series that makes heavy use of artistic license, contrary to Cyan's claims.
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#15 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 05:17 AM

View PostShinkansen, on Sep 20 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

What I want to know is, if Cyan and all its employees exist in-game, is there both a RAWA and a Dr. Watson? The character of Dr. Richard A. Watson is based off of the real-life employee of Cyan named Richard A. Watson. Are they just two very similar people, the same person, or the result of a cloning conspiracy? Or is Dr. Watson just a fabrication of Cyan, created in order to infiltrate the DRC to get information for making Myst games?


RAWA explains!

Dr. Watson and RAWA have been more or less separated at this point, but having Cyan and the Myst games exist in Uru still makes things extremely convoluted. I don't even want to think about the status of Exile and Revelation in the Uru world. :D
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#16 User is offline   ddb174 

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 10:49 AM

View PostFree Bird, on Sep 21 2009, 03:14 AM, said:

Here's a very simple explanation. Myst and Riven, plus Myst III and IV to a lesser degree, all make sense logically, with a few very minor exceptions. Every detail has been thought out and while they're essentially fictional, the fiction is so perfect that we might as well pretend they are real (if we suspend our disbelief about linking and such). Uru, on the other hand, is filled with little and big things that really don't make sense and aren't ever going to make sense, because Cyan had to make sacrifices to keep the game (it is a game, after all) playable.

In other words, it's not the Myst series but the Uru series that makes heavy use of artistic license, contrary to Cyan's claims.

This is what I thought also. Uru has so many inconsistencies, and Myst has relatively few, I think. Though Myst4 did purposefully contradict the original Myst/Riven, with the trap book thing, but that was apparently at Cyan's behest, to match what (again Rawa) said about how trap books aren't real. It takes a fair amount of arrogance, I think, to take away people's imaginations and replace it with one that glorifies yourself :D (Or the character which is obviously you :)) *shakes his fist at Rawa*
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#17 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 11:05 AM

View Postddb174, on Sep 21 2009, 09:49 AM, said:

It takes a fair amount of arrogance, I think, to take away people's imaginations and replace it with one that glorifies yourself :D (Or the character which is obviously you :)) *shakes his fist at Rawa*


Given that Dr. Watson's whereabouts had been unknown for over a year when Myst V came out, I personally think that making him the game's protagonist tied things together very nicely.
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#18 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 03:07 PM

View PostTalashar, on Sep 21 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

View Postddb174, on Sep 21 2009, 09:49 AM, said:

It takes a fair amount of arrogance, I think, to take away people's imaginations and replace it with one that glorifies yourself :) (Or the character which is obviously you :)) *shakes his fist at Rawa*


Given that Dr. Watson's whereabouts had been unknown for over a year when Myst V came out, I personally think that making him the game's protagonist tied things together very nicely.

And stopped every single explorer from claiming that they were the protagonist in Myst V, making a huge confusing mess of confusion.

I don't see what's so bad about Dr. Watson being the protagonist of EoA in the Uru universe. Since the Stranger from Myst-Myst IV is obviously also somebody else (in the Uru universe), then there's not that much of a difference. Of course, we are all assuming that this unknown Stranger is more handsome/beautiful than Dr. Watson, which might be the main problem here. :D
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#19 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 04:48 PM

"Richard Watson is the gaming industry's coolest protagonist ever" camp here :) and only partially joking. That's cuz Jeff Zandi would be the coolest protagonist ever. *nods*

I can understand people being pissed off at not knowing who they were supposed to be for two years. Really. They should have at least told it straight away. Two years of chuckling at a confused fanbase does not outweigh the anger of said confused fanbase.
But for me... I had barely started to accept the whole "Myst are games by Uru canon" thing, which I also love, and I thought that another Myst game released in 2005, when everybody already knew about (and had already visited) the Cleft and the City and freakin' Myst Island, was a crazy idea. Crazy as in cool and crazy as in just crazy.
"So let me get this straight, instead of telling us everything through the forums they're spilling us money for a game that's like a summary of stuff that just happened. Ooooooook..."
I could be there, I had been there, and then I was back in my room, playing a game? The feeling was so surreal that I started to like it. And then what, I'm supposed to be Watson? That's even more surreal! And I like Watson! And Esher talking to the former head of the DRC, instead of some clueless girl, was even funnier! Totally different vibe from the other Myst games (which all have their heavy differences, btw) or even Uru (though closer to it than to anything else. I like to call it Uru's spin-off, if it makes sense, or Uru's third expansion), but so fresh and unbelievable that it made sense, in a way. My boyfriend once said: "Uru looked a lot like a modern art experiment already. This... this is it. :D "
'cause yeah, that's my Explorer playing a game. For a fan of metanarrative, it doesn't get much better. *hugs EoA*



As a side note, even when I didn't know about the Watson thing, I never wanted to be myself in the game (as in, my Explorer. My Stranger would've been fine, but the game was clearly set in the present). The Myst games told the story of the accomplishments of a single person (on the backdrop of the misfortunes of another, but that's Atrus for you *shrugs*). Uru was all about the "we", the observing, the personal growth, the reasoning on greater things on which my individual actions had a very limited effect. I am no protagonist and I am no savior, just a girl who happened to stop by a volcano.
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#20 User is offline   Free Bird 

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 06:20 PM

It still doesn't make sense, piney. How could Cyan have known about Watson's experiences before his return? Or are you suggesting he hid in Cyan's HQ (using the secret elevator button, perhaps :D)?

No, really. They should never have opened Pandora's box by starting to claim their earlier work was tainted with artistic license. The implications were just impossible to live up to.
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#21 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 06:39 PM

View Postlaughingpineapple, on Sep 23 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

"Richard Watson is the gaming industry's coolest protagonist ever" camp here :D and only partially joking. That's cuz Jeff Zandi would be the coolest protagonist ever. *nods*

I agree, Zandi would be cooler.

Quote

I can understand people being pissed off at not knowing who they were supposed to be for two years. Really. They should have at least told it straight away. Two years of chuckling at a confused fanbase does not outweigh the anger of said confused fanbase.

Well, there was the journal font.

View PostFree Bird, on Sep 23 2009, 05:20 PM, said:

It still doesn't make sense, piney. How could Cyan have known about Watson's experiences before his return? Or are you suggesting he hid in Cyan's HQ (using the secret elevator button, perhaps :))?

He could have had some contact with Cyan even before returning to the cavern, or he could have had contact to someone else who passed the information that inspired the game to Cyan (without telling them Dr. Watson was there, so they wouldn't tell the explorers). Also, Cyan could have gotten their information from other sources (Yeesha, Esher, the bahro, some explorers who saw parts of what happened, etc.).
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#22 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 06:52 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Sep 23 2009, 07:39 PM, said:

View Postlaughingpineapple, on Sep 23 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

"Richard Watson is the gaming industry's coolest protagonist ever" camp here :D and only partially joking. That's cuz Jeff Zandi would be the coolest protagonist ever. *nods*

I agree, Zandi would be cooler.


Myst VI: Flipping the Ages

The ending has not yet been written. The final burger not yet consumed.

In this final trip, you will play as the intrepid Jeff Zandi, the Master of the Meat Flipping Guild. Follow Zandi as he travels the Ages, paperback in hand, as he searches for the ultimate prize, the final gift of the bahro. Will Zandi find the Steak of the Ages? Or will he be cast away, unworthy?

The fate of future Ages is in your hands. Choose wisely.

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#23 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 06:56 PM

View PostFree Bird, on Sep 23 2009, 05:20 PM, said:

It still doesn't make sense, piney. How could Cyan have known about Watson's experiences before his return? Or are you suggesting he hid in Cyan's HQ (using the secret elevator button, perhaps :D)?


Yeesha wrote a journal or made a recording which made it into Cyan's hands via Zandi. We can tell it's based on Yeesha's account and not Watson's because playing the game leaves one with little idea of what actually happened. Cyan left the protagonist vague because they didn't have the slightest clue either. :)

Of course, this problem could have been avoided if they had stuck with the original story...
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#24 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 05:11 AM

Quote

Dr. Watson: I did take her first journey. When I reached the end, I spoke with her at length, and have since taken other journeys that she’s led me to.

If that's the original story, it may well include EoA :D (nice interview, btw)

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It still doesn't make sense, piney. How could Cyan have known about Watson's experiences before his return? Or are you suggesting he hid in Cyan's HQ (using the secret elevator button, perhaps wink.gif)?

Secret elevator button FTW! But no, there's a year and a half between Watson's disappearance and the game's release. As far as I know, as he came back, he disappeared from his responsibilities as head of the DRC, but he did lead his life and he may have spoken with his friends at Cyan. Either he or they may have thought that those events had to be made public somehow and a game could be the best way to do it. He didn't hide in there, he told them what they needed to know in order to develop the game and left.
It's bad taste on Uru!Cyan's part imho, but it's possible.

Quote

Well, there was the journal font.

And the fact that he had disappeared and that he had access to K'veer etc etc. It all makes sense and I strongly believe that having Watson as the protagonist was their intent from the start. But it's all too vague. Reveal it in the ending, or in the bonus disc if the game itself must have a neutral protagonist (it's a Myst game after all, I guess they were aiming for coherence among other things), in an interview, whatever. It's actually the same thing as the original Stranger as you said, but the situation is different since this game's story is embedded in a bigger picture that includes every one of us.

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(without telling them Dr. Watson was there, so they wouldn't tell the explorers)

Have they ever told us who the Stranger is? They're good at keeping secrets...
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#25 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 09:08 AM

View PostLostthyme, on Sep 23 2009, 05:52 PM, said:

Will Zandi find the Steak of the Ages?

:D Steak of Ages

Quote

Quote

Well, there was the journal font.

And the fact that he had disappeared and that he had access to K'veer etc etc. It all makes sense and I strongly believe that having Watson as the protagonist was their intent from the start. But it's all too vague. Reveal it in the ending, or in the bonus disc if the game itself must have a neutral protagonist (it's a Myst game after all, I guess they were aiming for coherence among other things), in an interview, whatever. It's actually the same thing as the original Stranger as you said, but the situation is different since this game's story is embedded in a bigger picture that includes every one of us.

Yeah, I think they were at least internally thinking it was Dr. Watson. I guess they weren't that sure whether it would be well received by Myst fans, though. It was only when Uru got up again and they had to explain the story somehow, that they decided to tell people about it.

Quote

Quote

(without telling them Dr. Watson was there, so they wouldn't tell the explorers)

Have they ever told us who the Stranger is? They're good at keeping secrets...

They might not know who the Stranger is. They might know the gender and a name (but Catherine's journals wouldn't necessarily even mention those facts), but not much else.
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