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How did they do it? {BoT spoilers}

#1 User is offline   Swampthing 

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 03:03 PM

How did the Philosopher et al crack up the cavern and pump that bio-weapon in?
Was it meant to remain obscure? If it wasn't - plz explain. If it was - got any sound theories?

I imagine they just wrote an age in which the bioweapon would naturally occur, but then you need to get vast amounts of it into the fan system, plus the whole earthquake angle seems unexplained.

Speaking of the fan system itself, that's another thing i don't quite get: does D'ni rely on air that comes from the surface? that seems odd. The only way i can settle that in my head is if it was Written to have the ventilation tunnels in the first place, then the fans were installed by maintainers working with air thingies on their back. But then, that means there have always been ways open between D'ni and the surface, just not very convenient ones. It all seems very... un-d'nilike. :=/
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#2 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 04:10 PM

Those are interesting points. I had never really given much thoughts to the ventilation. It does seem like there would have to be openings up to the surface. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of digging to the surface when there are already countless shafts up to the top for air.

I seem to remember something from one of the journal in URU about a plague. It was always my idea that Veovis' plague was just a mutation of an older one that nearly killed off all of the D'ni.
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#3 User is offline   only_achenar_lover 

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 05:51 PM

That's an excellent point about the fans. Maybe it gets really warm down there, or the air is unbreathable?
hmmm, that intrigues me more than your original question.
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#4 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 06:51 PM

The Book of Ti'ana does leave the details of the Fall unclear. That was one of the things I was hoping would be explored in Uru.

The fans and ventilation shafts were built very early after the D'ni came to the cavern, and indeed a few of the D'ni did stay to live on the surface back then.
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#5 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 01:11 PM

View PostSwampthing, on Dec 27 2009, 01:03 PM, said:

How did the Philosopher et al crack up the cavern and pump that bio-weapon in?
Was it meant to remain obscure? If it wasn't - plz explain. If it was - got any sound theories?

I imagine they just wrote an age in which the bioweapon would naturally occur, but then you need to get vast amounts of it into the fan system, plus the whole earthquake angle seems unexplained.

The earthquakes seem to have been unrelated - they may have been somewhat affected by previous attacks that A'gaeris & Co. made, and they may have been affected by the drilling of the shaft earlier (it had been through a very uncertain area, and had encountered significant problems with earth movement - it could be that the displacement of earth, the sudden hollow and perhaps amplifying tube, or the sudden digging in the area brought about the earthquakes that struck later). The bioweapon was probably raised in an illicit Age (although it might originally be from an older D'ni source - they did have at least some connections with high level Maintainers). With some saboteur's help, they got a link to some place in the maintenance tunnels near the fans (very easy to do - I don't think anyone expected the fans to ever come under sudden attack), geared up, and started linking in the toxin.

Quote

Speaking of the fan system itself, that's another thing i don't quite get: does D'ni rely on air that comes from the surface? that seems odd. The only way i can settle that in my head is if it was Written to have the ventilation tunnels in the first place, then the fans were installed by maintainers working with air thingies on their back. But then, that means there have always been ways open between D'ni and the surface, just not very convenient ones. It all seems very... un-d'nilike. :=/

First of all, I suspect that the fans used to pump the toxin in were not made to ventilate the cavern. They were made to ventilate one of the many smaller caverns or tunnels carved around the big cavern (with air brought in from the main cavern). Of course, they would work both ways in practice (because otherwise the small caverns would just get overpressured by all the air pumped in).

However, I do seem to remember hearing things about ventilation tunnels - probably entirely unrelated except in basic function - from D'ni to the surface.
D'ni started as a cavern (rather than starting as a tiny cave, and slowly being carved out artificially I mean). This must have had one of three air mixtures inside:

1. Toxic gases. The unbreathable air (at least, unbreathable for everyday life) had to be ventilated out by the D'ni. They came in with special gear to drill the ventilation shafts (or somehow else survived - perhaps with nutrients or by not staying in the Age for too long at any one time).
2. Breathable gases, but not enough to sustain all the population (or there were not enough things converting the CO2 back to Oxygen, or whatever analogous chemicals the D'ni need). Vents would be needed to sustain the levels (by bringing in fresh air from outside). These could even have been constructed after everyone linked in (and people began to realize that the fresh air would run out soon).
3. Breathable gases in great enough quantities, and lots of stuff to convert to fresh air. Vents not needed.

Only 3 would not need ventilation of some kind. The other ones don't have to have person sized vents, though (although original construction would need to get close enough that people could break there way out or escape up a regular cave system), or anything that people could actually use to get to the surface (or vice versa).
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#6 User is offline   Swampthing 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:54 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone!

This explanation puts me at ease:

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Dec 28 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

I suspect that the fans used to pump the toxin in were not made to ventilate the cavern. They were made to ventilate one of the many smaller caverns or tunnels carved around the big cavern (with air brought in from the main cavern). Of course, they would work both ways in practice (because otherwise the small caverns would just get overpressured by all the air pumped in).


On an unrelated note, i'm reading BoA now, and i got somewht confused: are Aitrus and Atrus the same name? Was Atrus named after Aitrus? That seems to be implied here, though BoT led me to think they were two separate names, both of which circulated in the line of Aitrus' ancestors.

Also, if the names are indeed different, what is the difference in pronunciation?
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#7 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 11:58 AM

View PostSwampthing, on Jan 17 2010, 06:54 AM, said:

On an unrelated note, i'm reading BoA now, and i got somewht confused: are Aitrus and Atrus the same name? Was Atrus named after Aitrus? That seems to be implied here, though BoT led me to think they were two separate names, both of which circulated in the line of Aitrus' ancestors.

Also, if the names are indeed different, what is the difference in pronunciation?

The two names are the same in D'ni. The added letter in "Aitrus" is so that we the fans can distinguish between the two - they are pronounced the same (and spelled the same in D'ni). Atrus was named after Aitrus (as Gehn would have wanted).
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#8 User is offline   Swampthing 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 12:41 PM

Thanks!

Oh, and why are the books marked with the numbers 17, 5 and alternative 25?
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#9 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 01:04 PM

View PostSwampthing, on Jan 17 2010, 11:41 AM, said:

Oh, and why are the books marked with the numbers 17, 5 and alternative 25?


5 stands for Riven, Gehn's fifth Age.

25 represents completion, tying in with the "closing of the circle" motif.

17 is less obvious, but most likely is it stands for the seventeenth hour, when Veovis was punished with his final prison.
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#10 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 01:36 PM

I asked the same question on the movie blog and I got another possible answer, 17 being the nodes in the path marked on Aitrus' map. It's purportedly also marked on the map itself, although I didn't check.
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#11 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 01:50 PM

As mentioned

5 is almost surely due to Riven, Gehn's Fifth Age (and the presence of Gehn, who likes the number five)

25 is a little more vague. It could be symbolizing completion, or perhaps the D'ni themselves. Also, it looks impressive.

17... is a mystery. Talashar's and laughingpineapple's explanations are the main ones I've heard.
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#12 User is offline   only_achenar_lover 

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 04:19 PM

That'sa good explanation. I've ALWAYS wondered that!!!
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#13 User is offline   Swampthing 

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 08:22 AM

Yay, things make sense now! :=}
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#14 User is offline   Cactus Wren 

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 10:42 PM

Will everyone hate me if I bring up the topic of atmospheric pressure, and whether linking away from D'ni can trigger the bends?
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#15 User is offline   Swampthing 

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 06:17 PM

Trigger the what?
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#16 User is offline   I'mNotCheating... 

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 07:03 PM

It's a Radiohead album, commonly played to those in compression chambers hoping to avoid decompression sickness when, for example, coming up too fast from a deep dive.
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#17 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 07:29 PM

View PostCactus Wren, on Feb 15 2010, 09:42 PM, said:

Will everyone hate me if I bring up the topic of atmospheric pressure, and whether linking away from D'ni can trigger the bends?


Huh. I'd never thought about that. (My questions regarding linking tend to be about time dilation.)
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#18 User is offline   Swampthing 

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 07:41 PM

Decompression is an interesting point.
Why time dilation, though?
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#19 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 07:48 PM

View PostCactus Wren, on Feb 15 2010, 08:42 PM, said:

Will everyone hate me if I bring up the topic of atmospheric pressure, and whether linking away from D'ni can trigger the bends?

I'm going with something similar to this theory here until some better explanation comes up.
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#20 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 08:04 PM

View PostSwampthing, on Feb 20 2010, 05:41 PM, said:

Decompression is an interesting point.
Why time dilation, though?


If Atrus uses the rocket on Myst to fly off at speeds approaching the speed of light, from his point of view time will be proceeding more rapidly back on Myst. But from Catherine's point of view, time will be passing more rapidly on the rocket. What happens if they agree to both link to Channelwood after a year has passed? ;)

(Bahro eat them, that's what happens.)
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#21 User is offline   Swampthing 

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 03:44 AM

Wait, that rocket is supposed to actually fly? 0_o
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#22 User is offline   Talashar 

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 07:21 AM

View PostSwampthing, on Feb 21 2010, 02:44 AM, said:

Wait, that rocket is supposed to actually fly? 0_o


I doubt it. It was a thought experiment. ;)
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#23 User is offline   Cactus Wren 

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 02:15 AM

And since Atrus has probably written Ages with higher or lower (but still breathable) atmospheric pressures, isn't it likely he's suffered more than once from acute altitude sickness? Wouldn't that in fact be endemic among a population that used Linking Books regularly? No time to acclimatize. (You are all going to hate me, but I can't help it, things like this just come up in my mind.)

Gloa, I don't like your theory. It makes me sad. ;)
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#24 User is offline   300happy 

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:20 AM

There is a simple solution to both the time problem and the momentum problem and every other book problem.

The book itself eats whatever is causing the problem. It's sort of like Windows.
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#25 User is offline   Narayani Girl 

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 08:54 PM

View Post300happy, on Feb 22 2010, 10:20 AM, said:

There is a simple solution to both the time problem and the momentum problem and every other book problem.

The book itself eats whatever is causing the problem. It's sort of like Windows.


Windows? I'm not sure I get it...

Somebody please explain about the number on the Book of D'Ni? I keep being told it's twenty five. Says who? It doesn't look like twenty five to me! It's an X! You'd have to turn a number a quarter of the way to get that! I've read all of the books but I've only played the games through revelation so unless it's something that comes out in some obscure place in one of the later ones I'm totally lost. They mentioned a strange symbol on the linking book to... (where ever it is, the place they link to,) and I thought it was just that. Not a number.

(Distressed and confusedly yours)
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