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Where Art Thou, Suahrnir? Yet Another of my Strange Ideas

#1 User is offline   Shinkansen 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 04:14 PM

This is going to be a really Strange Idea, but I've given this a lot of thought, so hear me out.

We never learn what happens to Suahrnir, Veovis' Maintainer friend from Book of Ti'ana. The last time we see him, he's lying unconscious after being clubbed and dosed with sleeping gas by Anna.

So, my theory is that Esher is Suahrnir.

Getting whacked in the head and having sleeping gas poured all over him might explain many things about Esher; his speech impediment, his jerky movements, his hatred of Anna and surface dwellers in general.

Only real problem with this theory is that if Suahrnir is about the same age as Aitrus, that would make him 378 years old in 2005, which is a bit of a stretch even for the D'ni. Maybe the Bahro skin he wears is some sort of anti-aging device thingy? (which would make Esher even creepier)
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#2 User is offline   Lostthyme 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 04:16 PM

I love crazy theories. :blinky:

This definitely is an interesting one. Haven't got much more to add. Things are a bit vague when it comes to Esher.
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#3 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 05:12 PM

View PostShinkansen, on Jan 6 2010, 02:14 PM, said:

This is going to be a really Strange Idea, but I've given this a lot of thought, so hear me out.

We never learn what happens to Suahrnir, Veovis' Maintainer friend from Book of Ti'ana. The last time we see him, he's lying unconscious after being clubbed and dosed with sleeping gas by Anna.

So, my theory is that Esher is Suahrnir.

Getting whacked in the head and having sleeping gas poured all over him might explain many things about Esher; his speech impediment, his jerky movements, his hatred of Anna and surface dwellers in general.

Only real problem with this theory is that if Suahrnir is about the same age as Aitrus, that would make him 378 years old in 2005, which is a bit of a stretch even for the D'ni. Maybe the Bahro skin he wears is some sort of anti-aging device thingy? (which would make Esher even creepier)

Suarhnir does just seem to disappear (probably mostly because he's rather a useless character by the end of the novel, and he would distract from Veovis-A'gaeris-Aitrus-Ti'ana fighting). It is perfectly possible that he could be Esher (the age thing would make it a little extreme, but even a non-Suahrnir Esher would have to be pretty old [so its less of a stretch]). Also, the bahro anti-aging thing might also explain how Atrus kept living so long (despite being super old and only a tiny bit D'ni) - Atrus, though, would have a better way of achieving this affect.

Of course, most anyone from BoT (that isn't surely noted as dead, and didn't start out really old) could be Esher. Speech impediment and jerky movements could be caused by an unrelated illness, or perhaps by the plague released by Ag'aeris and Crew (surely some few survived it). Also, anyone whose magnificent civilization was ruined before their eyes by - in their mind - Ti'ana's actions would feel some animosity (also, he's up against Yeesha, who is not making him feel better about Ti'ana's family).
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#4 User is offline   Shinkansen 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 06:13 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Jan 6 2010, 06:12 PM, said:

Of course, most anyone from BoT (that isn't surely noted as dead, and didn't start out really old) could be Esher. Speech impediment and jerky movements could be caused by an unrelated illness, or perhaps by the plague released by Ag'aeris and Crew (surely some few survived it). Also, anyone whose magnificent civilization was ruined before their eyes by - in their mind - Ti'ana's actions would feel some animosity (also, he's up against Yeesha, who is not making him feel better about Ti'ana's family).

The only other character from BoT who's unaccounted for at the end is Jiladis the Inkmaker, who's a really minor character. He really disappears off the radar after Aitrus meets him on the Council Age. I don't even know why he's in the story, he's a bit useless, really.

Given how thorough (I think) Atrus' search of D'ni was, the only way Esher wasn't found was Atrus missed the Noloben book (which is possible, but BoT portrays Atrus' searches as pretty thorough), or Esher was actively hiding. BoT suggests that as the years passed, the D'ni survivors grouped themselves into larger and larger groups. Esher's staying by himself would be expected of someone who was actively involved in the downfall of D'ni.

Esher's costume does have purple in it, so he could be wearing the remains of a Inkmaker's cloak. But, there's also some red/burgundy, so I dunno.
Esher's costume is in pretty good condition for having spent 260 years on Noloben (there's no patches or anything) so I think what he's wearing is probably something he found/bought/stole somewhere. It doesn't look like previous portrayals of Guild uniforms (Gehn, Cho, and that guy on Survey Island).

Going back to Suahrnir, Suahrnir was a Maintainer, who were the ones most likely in charge of regulating the Bahro slaves. I think that the use of Bahro slaves in D'ni was fairly limited, so only a few high-ups in the Maintainers and such would know about it. Anna never found out about them, and she was the wife and daughter-in-law of two fairly important Council Members. Anyway, IF Noloben is the Bahro homeworld ("This was their home..."), or at least a world where Bahro lived , it is likely the Maintainers would go there to capture and enslave Bahro. Suahrnir, being a fairly senior Maintainer, would know about this.

Let's say after the events of "The Ink in the Well", Suahrnir regains consciousness, and returns to D'ni (there was one Linking Book back, the one to the Council chamber that Veovis used), Somehow, he avoids capture, and lies low after he hears Veovis has been captured. Being out of the loop, he doesn't know that Veovis escaped. He then spends the time in between Veovis' trial and the Fall living in the lower class areas, which would explain Esher's lack of Guild cloak. he is caught off guard as much as everyone else by the poison gas cloud, because, as far as he knew, Veovis and A'gaeris were only planning to incite a lower class revolt, not kill everybody. In the mad rush to escape, he remembers Noloben, and goes there. Veovis and A'gaeris, and Atrus and the other D'ni survivors, don't know about the Noloben Book, so Suahrnir/Esher is left alone for 260 years on Noloben. Where he goes slowly, and quietly insane.

Then, of course, how and why would Suahrnir/Esher learn English. I think that his English skills in Myst V might be Artistic License. Wouldn't Dr. Watson have some basic knowledge of D'ni?
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#5 User is online   Talashar 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 06:49 PM

At Veovis's trial, Anna mentions that A'gaeris is "still at large", but doesn't say anything about Suahrnir, which might suggest that he isn't. It is rather odd how he and Jiladis just drop out of the story without explanation. And where did Rijus come from and go to, anyway? :blinky:

View PostShinkansen, on Jan 6 2010, 05:13 PM, said:

Anyway, IF Noloben is the Bahro homeworld ("This was their home..."), or at least a world where Bahro lived , it is likely the Maintainers would go there to capture and enslave Bahro.

My impression was that every Bahro was enslaved/utilized/bound, not just a portion of the population. But that's only my impression. Perplexity continues to reign...

View PostShinkansen, on Jan 6 2010, 05:13 PM, said:

Then, of course, how and why would Suahrnir/Esher learn English. I think that his English skills in Myst V might be Artistic License. Wouldn't Dr. Watson have some basic knowledge of D'ni?


That's what I figured too: that Esher's dialogue was rendered in English but he would really have been speaking D'ni.
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#6 User is offline   only_achenar_lover 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:16 PM

View PostTalashar, on Jan 6 2010, 07:49 PM, said:

View PostShinkansen, on Jan 6 2010, 05:13 PM, said:

Then, of course, how and why would Suahrnir/Esher learn English. I think that his English skills in Myst V might be Artistic License. Wouldn't Dr. Watson have some basic knowledge of D'ni?


That's what I figured too: that Esher's dialogue was rendered in English but he would really have been speaking D'ni.

I agree Talashar. He must've been speaking D'ni, I mean, how many people here can speak FLUENT D'ni? :blinky:
But I think this is actually a pretty sound theory. I'm rereading BoT, so I'll see what I can find!
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#7 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 11:31 AM

View PostShinkansen, on Jan 6 2010, 04:13 PM, said:

The only other character from BoT who's unaccounted for at the end is Jiladis the Inkmaker, who's a really minor character. He really disappears off the radar after Aitrus meets him on the Council Age. I don't even know why he's in the story, he's a bit useless, really.

I meant any character - as in, every single citizen of D'ni (they are mentioned in passing as a group) who isn't stated to be dead (or cut off from a way to link to Noloben, since Esher mentions he fled there after the Fall [perhaps not his first link out, but probably soon after]).

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Given how thorough (I think) Atrus' search of D'ni was, the only way Esher wasn't found was Atrus missed the Noloben book (which is possible, but BoT portrays Atrus' searches as pretty thorough), or Esher was actively hiding. BoT suggests that as the years passed, the D'ni survivors grouped themselves into larger and larger groups. Esher's staying by himself would be expected of someone who was actively involved in the downfall of D'ni.

I'm not so sure. There are literally thousands of Ages (if not more) that could have had survivors. Could Atrus and the other refugees really be expected to search them all? Even in BoT, when the two Maintainers go missing, it is mentioned that searching all the Ages (with the full force of the Guild of Maintainers as well as others, while all the Ages are somewhat supervised and recorded [not to mention that they are in convenient places to get to and generally without fear of damaged Ages] and citizen help can be hoped for) is a major task. Add all the trouble of caring for the people you found, resolving disputes, trying to rebuild the city, writing new Ages, going on random jaunts to other sister civilizations...

Esher could simply have not known of other D'ni surviving, or not really cared (since there wouldn't be his grand civilization, he might not be the kind who likes to huddle around with other refugees). Also, is there a D'ni book on Noloben? If it was somehow destroyed (perhaps by Esher - madness or plain fear and dislike of the destroyed city is quite possible), then Esher wouldn't be able to go back for a long while. With his experiments and all, he doesn't seem like he'd care about joining others.

He also seems very nationalistic (or whatever you would call it) and proud of his civilization's order and law. Seems odd that he'd have previously been trading illicit books (not that he would find it bad - but the whole illegal and unsafe parts might bother him) and then would help people just trash his beautiful society. Of course, guilt and insanity could explain this change.

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Esher's costume does have purple in it, so he could be wearing the remains of a Inkmaker's cloak. But, there's also some red/burgundy, so I dunno.
Esher's costume is in pretty good condition for having spent 260 years on Noloben (there's no patches or anything) so I think what he's wearing is probably something he found/bought/stole somewhere. It doesn't look like previous portrayals of Guild uniforms (Gehn, Cho, and that guy on Survey Island).

He's probably wearing casual clothes of some kind (so the colors might not be symbolism any Guild affiliation). Unlike Gehn in his obsession, Esher doesn't seem to feel the need to be so formal all the time (and probably knows the customs much better).

Quote

Going back to Suahrnir, Suahrnir was a Maintainer, who were the ones most likely in charge of regulating the Bahro slaves. I think that the use of Bahro slaves in D'ni was fairly limited, so only a few high-ups in the Maintainers and such would know about it. Anna never found out about them, and she was the wife and daughter-in-law of two fairly important Council Members. Anyway, IF Noloben is the Bahro homeworld ("This was their home..."), or at least a world where Bahro lived , it is likely the Maintainers would go there to capture and enslave Bahro. Suahrnir, being a fairly senior Maintainer, would know about this.

Yeah, if it is their homeworld (or, as I think is more probable, an Age that they seem to congregate in a lot), then a Maintainer might also be more likely to have access to the book (perhaps one of the few copies of the book, which is why it stayed so safe).

Quote

Then, of course, how and why would Suahrnir/Esher learn English. I think that his English skills in Myst V might be Artistic License. Wouldn't Dr. Watson have some basic knowledge of D'ni?

Yeah, Watson would probably know enough D'ni to at least have simple discussions with Esher. Then we assume that these discussions were revised into coherent speeches (again, Artistic License) in the game...

View PostTalashar, on Jan 6 2010, 04:49 PM, said:

At Veovis's trial, Anna mentions that A'gaeris is "still at large", but doesn't say anything about Suahrnir, which might suggest that he isn't. It is rather odd how he and Jiladis just drop out of the story without explanation. And where did Rijus come from and go to, anyway? :blinky:

I'm guessing Suahrnir and Jiladis drop out of the story due to story constraints (they aren't that useful to push the plot forward, their characters don't have as interesting relationships and views as the rest of the main cast, etc.).

As for Rijus, I'm guessing he's a native from one of Gehn's Ages (perhaps one that collapsed before). He doesn't seem to pop up later in anything, but that just might be due to a short lifespan (a long time passes between Gehn's last link to Riven and the opening of the doors in K'veer).

Or maybe he's the same guy as Rakeri's advisor guy, or the random servant who appears with A'gaeris (my memory of these two minor characters is very sketchy). Or maybe he's the Stranger :pout: or a bahro.
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#8 User is online   Talashar 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:50 PM

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Jan 7 2010, 10:31 AM, said:

Quote

Given how thorough (I think) Atrus' search of D'ni was, the only way Esher wasn't found was Atrus missed the Noloben book (which is possible, but BoT portrays Atrus' searches as pretty thorough), or Esher was actively hiding. BoT suggests that as the years passed, the D'ni survivors grouped themselves into larger and larger groups. Esher's staying by himself would be expected of someone who was actively involved in the downfall of D'ni.

I'm not so sure. There are literally thousands of Ages (if not more) that could have had survivors. Could Atrus and the other refugees really be expected to search them all? Even in BoT, when the two Maintainers go missing, it is mentioned that searching all the Ages (with the full force of the Guild of Maintainers as well as others, while all the Ages are somewhat supervised and recorded [not to mention that they are in convenient places to get to and generally without fear of damaged Ages] and citizen help can be hoped for) is a major task. Add all the trouble of caring for the people you found, resolving disputes, trying to rebuild the city, writing new Ages, going on random jaunts to other sister civilizations...


Calam would be another D'ni survivor who doesn't seem to have been found by Atrus.

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Jan 7 2010, 10:31 AM, said:

View PostTalashar, on Jan 6 2010, 04:49 PM, said:

At Veovis's trial, Anna mentions that A'gaeris is "still at large", but doesn't say anything about Suahrnir, which might suggest that he isn't. It is rather odd how he and Jiladis just drop out of the story without explanation. And where did Rijus come from and go to, anyway? :blinky:

I'm guessing Suahrnir and Jiladis drop out of the story due to story constraints (they aren't that useful to push the plot forward, their characters don't have as interesting relationships and views as the rest of the main cast, etc.).


Looking back through the book, it does make sense that Jiladis would simply vanish from the story when he leaves Aitrus. But would it have been that hard to have a sentence or two saying something about Suahrnir? As it stands, I find myself reading the implication as being that Anna killed him! (What with those delicate D'ni bones and all...)
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#9 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 01:11 PM

View PostTalashar, on Jan 7 2010, 10:50 AM, said:

View PostGehn, lord of ages, on Jan 7 2010, 10:31 AM, said:

Quote

Given how thorough (I think) Atrus' search of D'ni was, the only way Esher wasn't found was Atrus missed the Noloben book (which is possible, but BoT portrays Atrus' searches as pretty thorough), or Esher was actively hiding. BoT suggests that as the years passed, the D'ni survivors grouped themselves into larger and larger groups. Esher's staying by himself would be expected of someone who was actively involved in the downfall of D'ni.

I'm not so sure. There are literally thousands of Ages (if not more) that could have had survivors. Could Atrus and the other refugees really be expected to search them all? Even in BoT, when the two Maintainers go missing, it is mentioned that searching all the Ages (with the full force of the Guild of Maintainers as well as others, while all the Ages are somewhat supervised and recorded [not to mention that they are in convenient places to get to and generally without fear of damaged Ages] and citizen help can be hoped for) is a major task. Add all the trouble of caring for the people you found, resolving disputes, trying to rebuild the city, writing new Ages, going on random jaunts to other sister civilizations...


Calam would be another D'ni survivor who doesn't seem to have been found by Atrus.

Oh yeah, and wasn't he staying in the D'ni city itself (although he may have moved back after Atrus' search)?

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Looking back through the book, it does make sense that Jiladis would simply vanish from the story when he leaves Aitrus. But would it have been that hard to have a sentence or two saying something about Suahrnir? As it stands, I find myself reading the implication as being that Anna killed him! (What with those delicate D'ni bones and all...)

Since they probably didn't have much access to medical care (and most of those with him would not care that much for an injured person - he can't do much in helping destroy D'ni), it could just be minor wounds that killed him or forced him to go into hiding for the whole time.
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#10 User is offline   Andrewnuva199 

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  Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:00 PM

Just pointing something out about Suahrnir's disappearance in Book of Ti'ana, in the scene where A'Gaeris is watching the preparations for his second freeing of Veovis from a prison age, there's mention that his recreation of the room Veovis will link in is modeled after sketches by Suahrnir. Doesn't this suggest that Suahrnir was able to evade capture after the inkworks bombing and contuine working for A'Gaeris?

I don't know if this affects the theory too much, but I thought it was worth noting.
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#11 User is offline   Shinkansen 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:46 PM

View PostAndrewnuva199, on Jan 7 2010, 08:00 PM, said:

Just pointing something out about Suahrnir's disappearance in Book of Ti'ana, in the scene where A'Gaeris is watching the preparations for his second freeing of Veovis from a prison age, there's mention that his recreation of the room Veovis will link in is modeled after sketches by Suahrnir. Doesn't this suggest that Suahrnir was able to evade capture after the inkworks bombing and contuine working for A'Gaeris?

I don't know if this affects the theory too much, but I thought it was worth noting.

You're right. :blinky:

BoT pgs. 490-491 said:

For a moment he compared Suahrnir's sketches to the room that was being constructed in the clearing, then slipped the book away once more. There was no doubting it, Suahrnir had a good eye. No detail had evaded him.

Though, of course, what happens to Suahrnir after the fall is still not clear. He's not present when Veovis and A'gaeris are spreading their plague to the Ages. For all we know, A'gaeris and Veovis "disposed" of Suahrnir. But, Suahrnir a rather close friend of Veovis, so I don't think that would have happened. Of course, Aitrus was a close friend, and we all know how that turned out.
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#12 User is online   Talashar 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 07:45 AM

View PostShinkansen, on Jan 7 2010, 06:46 PM, said:

BoT pgs. 490-491 said:

For a moment he compared Suahrnir's sketches to the room that was being constructed in the clearing, then slipped the book away once more. There was no doubting it, Suahrnir had a good eye. No detail had evaded him.

Though, of course, what happens to Suahrnir after the fall is still not clear. He's not present when Veovis and A'gaeris are spreading their plague to the Ages. For all we know, A'gaeris and Veovis "disposed" of Suahrnir. But, Suahrnir a rather close friend of Veovis, so I don't think that would have happened. Of course, Aitrus was a close friend, and we all know how that turned out.

You're missing a had. It's

Quote

...Suahrnir had had a good eye.


So either Suahrnir and A'gaeris had worked this out as a contingency plan before Veovis was taken prisoner, or something happened to Suahrnir between Veovis's capture and his rescue. This something would likely be A'gaeris taking measures to ensure absolute secrecy...
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#13 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 05:17 PM

Quote

Oh yeah, and wasn't he staying in the D'ni city itself (although he may have moved back after Atrus' search)?

Or just visiting. They met in the library... that's all we know. I like to think that he lived alone in a suitable Age and came back to D'ni now and then, for nostalgia and/or research.
While not exactly likely, it's even possible that Calam was part of the Releeshahn group, was looking for something in D'ni, met Yeesha and decided to stay there for a while, keeping company to that weird new friend of his, isn't it?
...no wait it isn't, or Atrus wouldn't have written Releeshahn... Calam would, since he was so awesome and everything. There had to be a shortage of Writers.




(and I wanted to open a topic on Esher, Calam and their connections to Releeshahn. Talk about luck! :blinky: )
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#14 User is offline   padfoot7726 

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 02:59 PM

View PostShinkansen, on Jan 6 2010, 04:14 PM, said:

We never learn what happens to Suahrnir, Veovis' Maintainer friend from Book of Ti'ana. The last time we see him, he's lying unconscious after being clubbed and dosed with sleeping gas by Anna.


Hmm. Well, from what's said in the book, I assumed him dead. I mean, when Anna just smelled the stuff, she felt dizzy. Suahrnir got an entire jar to the face. I mean, clouds of gas were pouring from his face. Even if the initial inhalation didn't kill him, the stuff lingered on his face, and clouded around him. From the description, I thought that much of the stuff would be enough to kill a small horse.

EDIT:
Actually, it just ocurred to me that if the gas was densely clouded enough around his face, he would have easily died of asphyxia if the gas itself didn't kill him.
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#15 User is offline   Tweek 

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 05:54 PM

Not to be a bubble burster though, but Esher is simply Esher, he was from the Guild of Archivists.

Also it's highly possible Atrus missed Books when searching, the main cavern of D'ni is 6 by 10 miles, with countless buildings tunnels and what-not where Books could be, or be hidden. Their search didn't really seem to go on for that long.

Not to mention that the DRC and explorers continue to find Books on their travels.
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#16 User is offline   laughingpineapple 

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 06:52 AM

D'aaaaaaah source on Esher being an Archivist? I thought he was a Guildsman but I couldn't remember which Guild he was part of and MYSTlore doesn't mention it ???

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Also it's highly possible Atrus missed Books when searching,

As Veovis did. It's likely that the Books that were hidden best weren't discovered by either of them.
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#17 User is offline   Almaron 

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 02:08 AM

I remember reading the odd page on DPWR mentioning Esher as an archivist, but I don't know whether it's canon or not. This link goes to a preview for Myst V, which mentions Esher as an archivist, so maybe it was a detail that got dropped? Or is it mentioned in any of the manuals? Maybe the Archivist note is referring to his research on Noloben.

However, Esher's robes DO have a vague gold tint, and gold was the colour of the Guild of Archivists, if I recall correctly...

And regarding the extra books, maybe Atrus decided to stop searching for D'ni survivors, or his searchers weren't as thorough as him. Or, they may have intentionally left certain ages behind, having no use for them (Or the surviving books may have been primarily old library ages, and unlikely candidates for containing survivors. Certainly Gehn ignored huge amounts of books in BOA.) Some books may be on K'veer, either having survived the BOT blaze, or being stored in different rooms, even by Gehn. In Kadish Tolesa, apparently you can hear Ytrams, so he may have used Kadish Tolesa to write Riven. Then, Atrus, cleaning up after his father, ignores those ages, presuming them to be faulty.

Maybe the possible sources of these books should be discussed on another page.
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#18 User is offline   Tweek 

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:57 AM

I believe Rawa confirmed the details about Esher
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#19 User is offline   Almaron 

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 02:44 PM

Is it possible that the stuff that Ti'ana poured over Suahrnir's face accidentally killed him? I don't think we are ever told what it was, and it could even have been poisonous. If it worked like chloroform, too much could have proved fatal, and could explain why he isn't heard from again.

But also, didn't Maintainers enter the age to rescue Ti'ana and apprehend Veovis? They may have found Suahrnir still on the floor (I doubt A'gaeris would have tried to rescue anyone but himself), either unconcious or dead, and they would either have locked him up or sent him to the burial age. Actually, if he was locked up, Veovis and A'gaeris may have attempted to free him, so they must have believed him dead (Or killed with the rest of D'ni. Or they just didn't care).
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#20 User is offline   Mystress 

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 09:25 PM

Gehn, on Lord of Ages, said:

Quote

Then, of course, how and why would Suahrnir/Esher learn English. I think that his English skills in Myst V might be Artistic License. Wouldn't Dr. Watson have some basic knowledge of D'ni?


Yeah, Watson would probably know enough D'ni to at least have simple discussions with Esher. Then we assume that these discussions were revised into coherent speeches (again, Artistic License) in the game...


Could it be possible that the Ki found at the start of End of Ages could translate some of the D'ni dialect? I know it's a stretch, since the D'ni would have expected Anna to learn their language instead of them learning hers, but who's to say the Ki doesn't have a translator function that just never got put to use?

Gehn, on Lord of Ages, said:

It is perfectly possible that he could be Esher (the age thing would make it a little extreme, but even a non-Suahrnir Esher would have to be pretty old [so its less of a stretch]). Also, the bahro anti-aging thing might also explain how Atrus kept living so long (despite being super old and only a tiny bit D'ni) - Atrus, though, would have a better way of achieving this affect.


Is it possible that through Yeesha's connection with the bahro, she and they helped Atrus stay alive so long somehow? I mean, if we're assuming the bahro have anti-aging properties - maybe in their blood or skin or something - that must mean they have a gene or enzyme for it and therefore could express the ability themselves, right? The bahro did outlive the D'ni, either by hiding in the bahro caves or hiding in other ages when the plague hit... but is it possible that they may have outlived the D'ni anyway, and part of the D'ni's longevity came from using the bahroes' powers...? And going back to Yeesha, is it possible she simply used her Grower powers on Atrus or something so he would live longer?

Shinkansen said:

Getting whacked in the head and having sleeping gas poured all over him might explain many things about Esher; his speech impediment, his jerky movements, his hatred of Anna and surface dwellers in general.


Or it could even be an effect of the plague, but Suahrnir somehow survived it. Maybe the sleeping gas somehow killed the disease, but by then the disease's effects caused problems, possibly including speech impediment and jerky movements.

This could, however, simply be a part of Esher's insanity. His movements could be jerky because of a compulsion or obsession, or even a chemical imbalance in the brain or nerve damage. The speech impediment could be from slight mental slowness, or it could also be from brain damage. Perhaps brain damage itself caused Esher's madness somehow; it's all uncertain and just a theory.

Where's Lutra when you need her, eh? ;)
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#21 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 09:36 PM

View PostMystress, on Feb 27 2010, 07:25 PM, said:

Gehn, on Lord of Ages, said:

Quote

Then, of course, how and why would Suahrnir/Esher learn English. I think that his English skills in Myst V might be Artistic License. Wouldn't Dr. Watson have some basic knowledge of D'ni?


Yeah, Watson would probably know enough D'ni to at least have simple discussions with Esher. Then we assume that these discussions were revised into coherent speeches (again, Artistic License) in the game...


Could it be possible that the Ki found at the start of End of Ages could translate some of the D'ni dialect? I know it's a stretch, since the D'ni would have expected Anna to learn their language instead of them learning hers, but who's to say the Ki doesn't have a translator function that just never got put to use?

I don't know how that would work unless
1) The translator was developed by the DRC (using the KI versions of voice detection and spellcheck functions, but using the "code" part of the thing to transfer to English words)
2) The translator somehow translates universal meaning.
3) Anna, the one English speaker we know of in D'ni, helped produce this translation project (for some unknown surface expedition? Who knows).

Quote

Gehn, on Lord of Ages, said:

It is perfectly possible that he could be Esher (the age thing would make it a little extreme, but even a non-Suahrnir Esher would have to be pretty old [so its less of a stretch]). Also, the bahro anti-aging thing might also explain how Atrus kept living so long (despite being super old and only a tiny bit D'ni) - Atrus, though, would have a better way of achieving this affect.


Is it possible that through Yeesha's connection with the bahro, she and they helped Atrus stay alive so long somehow? I mean, if we're assuming the bahro have anti-aging properties - maybe in their blood or skin or something - that must mean they have a gene or enzyme for it and therefore could express the ability themselves, right? The bahro did outlive the D'ni, either by hiding in the bahro caves or hiding in other ages when the plague hit... but is it possible that they may have outlived the D'ni anyway, and part of the D'ni's longevity came from using the bahroes' powers...? And going back to Yeesha, is it possible she simply used her Grower powers on Atrus or something so he would live longer?

I'm guessing the bahro might have something to do with it, if only nudging him to the right sources/Ages.

I think the bahro survived the Fall because they weren't D'ni or algae, and so the toxin/virus/whatever was just not that deadly to them. Also, linking away easily without leaving books behind comes in handy.
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