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How would you improve Myst?

#1 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:21 PM

We've had this kind of discussion for basically all the games (Riven, Rev, EoA, I know... wait, did we have one for Exile? If not, we should start one).

Basically, if you were given the project now, with ample resources (within reason), and no prior history of it - so no need to stick to nostalgia, it's not just a realMyst style thing where you have to stick mostly to the format of the predecessor - what would you change (I'll post my ideas after some people pitch in theres - don't want to influence things)?
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#2 User is offline   AaronAKAAtrus 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:33 PM

hmm, is a realtime with original quality graphics possible?
also: more of the island and ages to explore. not new ages tho.
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#3 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:44 PM

View PostAaronAKAAtrus, on Sep 15 2010, 12:33 PM, said:

hmm, is a realtime with original quality graphics possible?
also: more of the island and ages to explore. not new ages tho.

It's Myst, so yeah. Even realMyst got pretty close, aside from a couple visual problems. EoA surpassed it, in pure visual quality and detail available, at high graphics settings especially. Nowadays, perfectly possible.

What would you put in the extra areas of the island and Ages?
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#4 User is offline   AaronAKAAtrus 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 02:53 PM

simple. The island is supposed to be bigger, and athe elevator access more. There are places around the rocks and fortress. sure- maybe the lost ages would be nice, but the MYSTery of them was nice too.
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#5 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 03:48 PM

View PostAaronAKAAtrus, on Sep 15 2010, 01:53 PM, said:

simple. The island is supposed to be bigger, and athe elevator access more. There are places around the rocks and fortress. sure- maybe the lost ages would be nice, but the MYSTery of them was nice too.

So you feel that as a game, it could have been better if it had a more expansive exploration area?
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#6 User is offline   AaronAKAAtrus 

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 04:46 PM

as a game? no. As a world? yes. i think it might cofuse the gameplay though. which is why it should be extra itouch myst content.
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:24 AM

I'd always keep immersive photo quality graphics at top of agenda. I like the bubble view of exile / rev, but I also like the transition effect from schizm. I would keep trap books as phoney links. Cannon seems to suggest no difference between trap and prison books. Also i'd make sure all puzzles required solving. Some of exile / rev puzzles were touch and solved, very unsatisfactory!

I would have the D'ni as a smaller more dispersed race, so we could have more games not just revolving around Atrus. Keep the live action people and remove avatars, have the Art as Gehn undertood it, ages are actually created, then strange stuff can be written in!
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#8 User is offline   Thestrangered 

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 08:29 AM

How to make Myst better...mmm...

(sorry if these ideas are more extrem than simple addition, but this is how I think Myst would be better :P )

Adapt the chapters method, tie it closer with the books. Allow us to play, at some parts, as Atrus and Catherine (after all, books allow us a wider point of view, from many character's eyes. Just like BoT...first chapter is Aitrus centric, "of Stone and Dust and Ashes" is Anna centric. And as I say, I think it should have more of a book structure). Something like Dreamfall, where you play 3 different character.

More backstory, personality and information about the Stranger. Let him speak!

Tie Myst and Riven as one game. They are closely tied anyway, in terms of storyline. I think the Stranger should be more than just a hero in the time of need...the players should learn his personality, get attached to him.

Myst island is bigger, more places of protection (without books obviously). And the underground living quarters.

Rime has an important part in the story...with trap books gone, the Stranger interacts with the brothers using the imager in Rime. As for Atrus, you can't speak with him through the panel- you will have to figure out what's going on with him on your own. You still have to collect red and blue pages, only that instead of a final page in the fireplace there is a Myst book, which you can bring to either Haven, Spire, or K'veer.

More clues on the conspiracy of the brothers.

A little more action. Ohhhh yeah. You heared it. A little fighting. It's kinda unrealistic to have a world full of angry Rivenese gaurds, and you just go about your business entering private places and stuff. But not too much fighting, obviously. And some more intense parts. For example, if you press the wrong button at the Stoneship rose, water will pump back into the room and you have to get out before, well...before you drown to death :arianna:

A friend! to talk with us and come with us to places. Why does the adventure have to be so lonely?

Back to the chapters, I think it can go like this (warning: lot's of day dreaming and strange ideas here :bored: ) :

Click to reveal hidden content
- Atrus intro speech.

- Prologue. We play as the stranger, about 6 years before he finds the Myst book. I was thinking something like this: you are at Tibet or something (yeah Dreamfall is a cool game :P ), as an archeologist. You and you archeologist friends are looking for strange artifacts which appeared all around the world- these are actually Riven stuff which fell through the fissure during the BoA collapse, and also when Gehn experimented with it (yeah I change the fissure function here a bit). One of the guys finds a metal pentagon metal slate, and sends you "back" with the slate to a temple not far away. You go there, place the slate on a room with all kinds of other stuff you and your crue found around the world (helmets from guys dropped off the fissure, more slates, and other things). Than the other members come in, fight a little (they are frustrated because they don't understand where these things are coming from :P ) and with the fight the prologue ends.

- Chapter 1. 6 years later, you play as Atrus, and you are exploring a new age with Sirrus and Achenar. You find a village of some sorts...however there is no one around. The brothers, disappointed, decide to leave (trough a Myst linking book you carry). However you want to stay, because there is a big building in the middle of the village. A locked building. And you wanna get in. So, there is a simple puzzle here, and after you solve it you gain access into the building, where you find...a dead body. With a knife in it. Who could have killed this book worlder? You link back to Myst, Catherine waits for you, telling you she will come with you to the age and examine the mystery with you...later. She sends you into another age, as she needs some sort of experiment results from the age (you cannot explore the whole island- she stops you from doing it). You go to the age, and your goal is to go to the top of a lighthouse where the laboratory is. Another puzzle, and when finally reaching the top, you also reach the book back to Myst...Atrus looks at it, shouts "MY BOOKS!" and links back to Myst.

- Chapter 2. You play as the Stranger again. You arrive at an old west style town. You are investigating the disappearence of a surveyor and his daughter- Anna and her father. You talk with a book shop owner, who tells you to find one of the Lord's (Anna's employer) sons, who is at the market. The Lord's son gives you a key to the mansion, where the Lord lived. You explore it, and after solving a simple puzzle, you find a document...it contains many names, but it's written in Spanish. The Lord's son comes by, and translates it for you. He tells you the general direction where Anna and her father lived, according to the document, and tells you that you can get a horse at the bookstore (strange, I know). So you go back there, and the store owner allows you to have a free wagon, but he wants to come with you. So he comes with you, and you find the lodge, but there's nothing there...

- Chapter 3. You play as Catherine, and you are "kidnapped" by the Moiety. They take you to a small boat tour around Riven, which looks quite unstable. So now you can explore Riven, kill some guards that attack you...solve some puzzles, write Tay...whatever catherine says on her Riven journal. The chapter ends as Catherine is kidnapped by Gehn.

- Chapter 4. You play as the Stranger again. Waking up from a nightmare, in which you see the lodge and a book and other strange visions, you go back to Mexico, riding back to the lodge (some sort of cutscene there, I suppose). You solve a certain puzzle, and find map, with a very interesting landmark on it- the volcano and the cleft. So you go there, find the Myst book, and link in. Now it's just Myst, regular story, regular ages. After solving 2 ages, another person links into Myst- the store owner. He tells you he followed you here...and he is really excited about all this. He keeps you company while on Myst, but he won't follow you into the ages. Except for Rime (you need to go there so the brothers tell you about the fireplace code)...where he almost drowns :P so you save him, hear the messege- alone (he stays at the hut to heat up). When he asks you what they told you, you don't tell him- that way the choice is all yours, without another opinion influencing. So you choose Atrus, the store owner follows you soon enough (wondering where you've been missing). He is all excited about Atrus, and as you go back to Myst, the chapter end.

- Chapter 4. Atrus calls you back from Myst. He tells you he sent your friend a day ago to Riven, and now he wants to send you. So you arrive at Riven, solve puzzles, do all kinds of wacko stuff with the rebels, kill some angry guards :rotflol: . Finally you arrive at Tay, where you also find your friend, who apparently joined the the Moiety. As you link back to Riven, the chapter ends.

- Chapter 5. You come back to Riven, however your friend, the store owner, is captured and is fed to the Whark before you can do anything. You trap Gehn, using an unstable 233rd age book combined with one of Catherin's linking stone-book thingies (you link into the prison age, wait a minute, and link out just as Gehn links in, dropping the book into the water/steam/anything that might destory it. Gehn, knowing you has a book back to 233rd, didn't bring one- and so he is trapped inside the prison age. You release Catherine, open the fissure, Atrus and Catherine go back home, and you fall down into the fissure...

- Epilogue. Maybe something with Atrus and Catherine going to Averone.

- Than you get Atrus' outro from Riven, and that's it :D


You, I'm I get these creativity booms sometimes :P
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#9 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 08:34 AM

Okay, what I'd do:

- Realtime graphics. The Myst concept is enough detached (unlike the potential in Riven-Revelation, where it would take a very good realtime graphics usage to make it better than the original in that) that reasonable realtime graphics could be used to present it.
- Maybe a navigation system like EoA's navigation, allowing different navigation styles, and focusing still on the nodes (but allowing panorama viewing or free walking around when a player would find that more beneficial).
- A journal. Perhaps one that you pick up in the Library (and in the touchscreen able platforms such a game could now be designed for, the ability to just write/draw in it by touch).
- A camera for taking screenshots in game, which would be placed in a section in the journal for viewing. These things were just so nice in the games which had them.
- Prison books stay, because for the game, the human interaction and the lack of need to somehow arrange the plot around how you learn everything elsewise wouldn't benefit much. They get the explanation made for them in Riven, perhaps with added details that can make them a distinct writing tactic that wouldn't effect the D'ni civilization or their books (by being worked out partially by Atrus, by being only fully thought up of by an obscure person after or near the Fall, by being a style long suppressed and forgotten by the first D'ni, etc.). That part wouldn't help the game itself, but would perhaps allow for there to be no need for changes in later games.

- I'd keep the music about the same. More of it would be nice, and smoother fading in and out, but the general music style fits.

Myst Island
- Stylistically, we're picking one or two styles and sticking with them. Also, less complete similarity to Earth styles. Surrealism can be done with more alien stuff. Keep the neoclassical look for the buildings (now including the other shacks, and the clock tower), but mix in some Deco and some Oriental influences, along with odd interesting shapes and architectural designs, until they don't look like a bunch of cookie cutter plots all slapped together.
- First off, the Spaceship goes. The pipe organ and machine/book get their own room, connected to the underground power section (perhaps the hut you use to enter the tunnels to the power station, or perhaps further underground).
- The tree stays, the log cabin does not, especially not the ugly little painting thing it has to indicate how the tree is moving. The boiler gets some different controls, which are less annoying (maybe some levers for the power).
- The mountain area expands. The Library is mostly swallowed into this (so aside from the door and a little bit around that, there's no visible roof or outer walls for the thing).
- The clocktower also goes. Its puzzles get relegated to the house area.
- The elevator goes both ways, the lower way leading to the underground house area. A simple kitchen, with some more burnt books and journals, a garden in the center, and several bedrooms are here. Here might be where you find the first pages for the two books. A book to Rime is also here, with a simple way to open its place of safety. You might get the camera here too.
- The ship is replaced with something more fitting (I mean, still a ship, but a better ship for actually sailing around). You can't sail it since you don't know the mechanisms for undocking it and all. It's clearly covered in some ways so that it can deal with being underwater.
- Marker switches have a smoother design.
- Link to K'veer does not show Atrus (and you're warned that it's a trap and that there's no way back [and the brothers are very convincing (since they're telling the truth) that there is no book linking back (there might also be more info on K'veer's background in journals, discussing that there is no book back [due to fear of Gehn] in the Age, and Atrus making sure the brothers don't accidentally touch it)], and the book link in does look shady). However, you can use Rime's crystal viewer to communicate with Atrus, if you're suspicious of it. The crystal code is given in the book.
- Gears stay, although perhaps somewhat redesigned.

I'll discuss more on the different Ages later.
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#10 User is offline   Thestrangered 

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 05:23 PM

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- Realtime graphics. The Myst concept is enough detached (unlike the potential in Riven-Revelation, where it would take a very good realtime graphics usage to make it better than the original in that) that reasonable realtime graphics could be used to present it.


Yeah, I agree.

Quote

- Maybe a navigation system like EoA's navigation, allowing different navigation styles, and focusing still on the nodes (but allowing panorama viewing or free walking around when a player would find that more beneficial).


I agree on this too. No reason to keep going with nodes anymore.

Quote

- A journal. Perhaps one that you pick up in the Library (and in the touchscreen able platforms such a game could now be designed for, the ability to just write/draw in it by touch).
- A camera for taking screenshots in game, which would be placed in a section in the journal for viewing. These things were just so nice in the games which had them.


These are great ideas, but now I'm kinda' in conflict with myself on how would this work with my multipal characters idea. I don't think Atrus, Catherine and the Stranger all having a camera would be reasonable, and than there's the problem of Catherine already having a pre-written journal.

Quote

- Prison books stay, because for the game, the human interaction and the lack of need to somehow arrange the plot around how you learn everything elsewise wouldn't benefit much. They get the explanation made for them in Riven, perhaps with added details that can make them a distinct writing tactic that wouldn't effect the D'ni civilization or their books (by being worked out partially by Atrus, by being only fully thought up of by an obscure person after or near the Fall, by being a style long suppressed and forgotten by the first D'ni, etc.). That part wouldn't help the game itself, but would perhaps allow for there to be no need for changes in later games.


Well you probably know my opinion about that :arianna: I think prison ages are way more interesting than colored voids. And as I've said quite some times, it ties in better with BoT.

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- I'd keep the music about the same. More of it would be nice, and smoother fading in and out, but the general music style fits.


The music was nice, but I like real orchestras better (with only a little MIDI usage). And there should be more music in Riven, and louder, IMO.

Quote

Stylistically, we're picking one or two styles and sticking with them. Also, less complete similarity to Earth styles. Surrealism can be done with more alien stuff. Keep the neoclassical look for the buildings (now including the other shacks, and the clock tower), but mix in some Deco and some Oriental influences, along with odd interesting shapes and architectural designs, until they don't look like a bunch of cookie cutter plots all slapped together.


Agreed. Although I like the little Earth similarities (which Riven lacked), Myst had too much of them.

Quote

- First off, the Spaceship goes. The pipe organ and machine/book get their own room, connected to the underground power section (perhaps the hut you use to enter the tunnels to the power station, or perhaps further underground).


Thought about that too, as spaceship is quite casual, but I think it should stay. It made Myst very interesting in some strange way. And there are ways to make it look interesting...

Quote

- The tree stays, the log cabin does not, especially not the ugly little painting thing it has to indicate how the tree is moving. The boiler gets some different controls, which are less annoying (maybe some levers for the power).
- The mountain area expands. The Library is mostly swallowed into this (so aside from the door and a little bit around that, there's no visible roof or outer walls for the thing).
- The clocktower also goes. Its puzzles get relegated to the house area.


Well, I actually liked them :rotflol:

Quote

- The elevator goes both ways, the lower way leading to the underground house area. A simple kitchen, with some more burnt books and journals, a garden in the center, and several bedrooms are here. Here might be where you find the first pages for the two books. A book to Rime is also here, with a simple way to open its place of safety. You might get the camera here too.


Yeah, that would be awesome.

But why removing Rime from it's place of protection?

Quote

- The ship is replaced with something more fitting (I mean, still a ship, but a better ship for actually sailing around). You can't sail it since you don't know the mechanisms for undocking it and all. It's clearly covered in some ways so that it can deal with being underwater.


Better ship? I didn't see much problem with it. I mean it was...a ship. Unless you mean adding a wheel and such, which is fine.

Quote

- Marker switches have a smoother design.


Agreed, they don't really fit around...I was thinking about making them all very small, so they won't be so obvious. Except for the dock switch, which has to be bigger to contain the vault.

Quote

- Link to K'veer does not show Atrus (and you're warned that it's a trap and that there's no way back [and the brothers are very convincing (since they're telling the truth) that there is no book linking back (there might also be more info on K'veer's background in journals, discussing that there is no book back [due to fear of Gehn] in the Age, and Atrus making sure the brothers don't accidentally touch it)], and the book link in does look shady). However, you can use Rime's crystal viewer to communicate with Atrus, if you're suspicious of it. The crystal code is given in the book.


It's the same as my bothers idea...but I think here it would be nicer to figure out things your own.

Quote

- Gears stay, although perhaps somewhat redesigned.


I think they are good the way they are. The places of protections are supposed to be replicas of the age...so even if they don't make sense in Myst, they do in the ages.

And what about an optional "turn off places of protection" controls, which makes the places descend underground? than we could see the "real" Myst island.
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#11 User is offline   AaronAKAAtrus 

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 05:39 PM

myst ds had a camera.
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#12 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 05:43 PM

View PostThestrangered, on Sep 16 2010, 04:23 PM, said:

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- Maybe a navigation system like EoA's navigation, allowing different navigation styles, and focusing still on the nodes (but allowing panorama viewing or free walking around when a player would find that more beneficial).


I agree on this too. No reason to keep going with nodes anymore.

Heh, I actually picked EoA's navigation for its nodes (which are a helpful navigational tool, especially in places without physics or jumping puzzles or such). For something of Myst's graphics, it's just common sense that realtime will do better at this time. With the more photorealistic ones, it would require more careful and special realtime work to get it right, but with Myst, it's very reasonable.

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Quote

- Prison books stay, because for the game, the human interaction and the lack of need to somehow arrange the plot around how you learn everything elsewise wouldn't benefit much. They get the explanation made for them in Riven, perhaps with added details that can make them a distinct writing tactic that wouldn't effect the D'ni civilization or their books (by being worked out partially by Atrus, by being only fully thought up of by an obscure person after or near the Fall, by being a style long suppressed and forgotten by the first D'ni, etc.). That part wouldn't help the game itself, but would perhaps allow for there to be no need for changes in later games.


Well you probably know my opinion about that :arianna: I think prison ages are way more interesting than colored voids. And as I've said quite some times, it ties in better with BoT.

Well, I'm making this all on the assumption that this is focusing solely on the game Myst, as an original idea right this year - no other things to connect to (at least not "yet"), no canon needed to work with, etc. Prison Ages wouldn't really be useful in Myst itself - the endings end before there'd really be exploration there (unless you're rewarding them with long exploration for bad endings), and there's no need to tie it in with other things.

Thus, I have two main options that I think would be best. One would be to work in the trap book model so it wouldn't cause trouble in "future" canon - it's something that's unique to Atrus' time and knowledge (by some means), and was not a D'ni thing (at least not in anywhere near common usage). This would fit it in to not cause trouble tying it in with BoT or Uru's settings, while not having to hassle with more complicated endings for Myst (and Riven).

The second option is to use prison Ages. We're ignoring what to do with Riven at the moment, but in Myst... there would have to be some way to get a Myst book to the brothers (perhaps rather than send you to get red and blue pages, they'd send you to grab a Myst book), but that could be done, and could add some cinematic excitement (like Riven's endings) to the bad endings (you link in and are immediately ambushed - wake up a bit later...).
The communication with the brothers would be easy - Atrus' crystal viewer. Same ability to communicate, without trap books. Allows for some more environment for the brothers too. This would probably be cooler for "future" canon, although messier to work out the endings in Myst itself for.

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Quote

Stylistically, we're picking one or two styles and sticking with them. Also, less complete similarity to Earth styles. Surrealism can be done with more alien stuff. Keep the neoclassical look for the buildings (now including the other shacks, and the clock tower), but mix in some Deco and some Oriental influences, along with odd interesting shapes and architectural designs, until they don't look like a bunch of cookie cutter plots all slapped together.


Agreed. Although I like the little Earth similarities (which Riven lacked), Myst had too much of them.

Yeah, it's not that they're bad - the surreal and Earth touches were nice... just a little overboard compared to the general Myst feel we love.

Quote

Quote

- First off, the Spaceship goes. The pipe organ and machine/book get their own room, connected to the underground power section (perhaps the hut you use to enter the tunnels to the power station, or perhaps further underground).


Thought about that too, as spaceship is quite casual, but I think it should stay. It made Myst very interesting in some strange way. And there are ways to make it look interesting...

Well, this would be making it interesting and surreal in a different way (a bit more Rivenesque, but still on the surreal side), just taking off the whole "this is a rocket ship with a pipe organ inside it" that makes the game seem a bit silly compared to the rest of the canon around it eventually. Things can be surreal and unique without that (think of the Moiety daggers, perhaps).

Quote

Quote

- The elevator goes both ways, the lower way leading to the underground house area. A simple kitchen, with some more burnt books and journals, a garden in the center, and several bedrooms are here. Here might be where you find the first pages for the two books. A book to Rime is also here, with a simple way to open its place of safety. You might get the camera here too.


Yeah, that would be awesome.

But why removing Rime from it's place of protection?

For access earlier in the game (it would still have its place of protection, it would just be here rather than wherever it is in realMyst), so people can think to use it in the endgame (either just for Atrus, or so that people use it for communicating with the brothers).

Quote

Quote

- The ship is replaced with something more fitting (I mean, still a ship, but a better ship for actually sailing around). You can't sail it since you don't know the mechanisms for undocking it and all. It's clearly covered in some ways so that it can deal with being underwater.


Better ship? I didn't see much problem with it. I mean it was...a ship. Unless you mean adding a wheel and such, which is fine.

I mean a ship better fitted for sailing expeditions of that size and location, probably made a little more exotic looking too (but not too much). Also, a bit more like it gets used (and is just stored underwater to make an extra place of protection, if needed).

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- Marker switches have a smoother design.


Agreed, they don't really fit around...I was thinking about making them all very small, so they won't be so obvious. Except for the dock switch, which has to be bigger to contain the vault.

Part of it is to not make the vault stick out so much (while still being right there), so I don't think they should be different. Still... there's a lot more unobtrusive, better fitting with the environment designs.
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#13 User is offline   Thestrangered 

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 02:36 AM

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Well, this would be making it interesting and surreal in a different way (a bit more Rivenesque, but still on the surreal side), just taking off the whole "this is a rocket ship with a pipe organ inside it" that makes the game seem a bit silly compared to the rest of the canon around it eventually. Things can be surreal and unique without that (think of the Moiety daggers, perhaps).


IMO, all that is needed there is just making the spaceship look more real and less like a cartoon. But spaceship makes sense to me...in Myst it is a replica of the Selenitic one, and in Selenitic it's for...well we don't really know in Myst, but what about shooting for the stars?

...Atrus is an ambiguous guy.

:arianna:
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#14 User is offline   Mikemc 

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:56 PM

I would add multiplayer and some family-oriented mini-games like Tag, Catch/Frisbee and a climbing ability similar to a mix of Tombraider and Mirror's Edge. I would also remove some invisible walls and incorporate a leveling system for how long you can hold your breath underwater and grip for climbing trees :D. You improve your skills through playing mini-games. Catch-type improves grip and maybe running-type improves lung capacity.
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#15 User is offline   Free Bird 

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 11:50 AM

Are you being serious?
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#16 User is offline   Mikemc 

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  Posted 23 December 2010 - 01:32 AM

View PostFree Bird, on Dec 21 2010, 11:50 AM, said:

Are you being serious?

Yes, I am being serious. It's a beautiful place, especially if it were recreated with more life (Crysis engine?) and would make a beautiful picnic area. There aren't any exploration or family games out now that incorporate any kind of toss and catch system, or freedom of movement. I would take the beauty of Myst, any of them, (not Uru) and add more freedom to enjoy life there and to make it as realistic as possible without recreating it in real life. (And without any gun-oriented mini-games). When I play a really good adventure game, it is I who is the traveler, and I am really on that island.

The leveling system is a minor addition, to add another challenge or thing-to-do for anybody who already know the game by heart.
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#17 User is offline   Free Bird 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 09:03 AM

Whatever floats your boat, I suppose... I know it would ruin the game for me!
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#18 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 09:26 AM

Multiplayer would be interesting, although avatar control and visualization isn't really advanced that well for Myst yet, I'd think (and unless there was some really good way to sidestep being able to see each player, there'd have to be some kind of avatar). Maybe going back to the 'slideshow' interface style (or the false impression of that that EoA had, with nodes), and then just having the set animations for walking (perhaps even just live action based, in fairly generalized clothing and perhaps facial modifiers? or based on a couple of animations made straight from the players?) and other things... it seems much more trouble than it would actually be worth for Myst itself, though. Being alone IC, and with people helping around OOC seems quite fine for the tone of the game.

Minigames would be nice - not as actual minigames, but as more unrelated things to do. Throw pieces of wood around for a puzzle, or just for fun - skip rocks, stuff like that. More exploration ability with swimming, some limited climbing, and slightly more realistic surfaces and barriers would be difficult to make without making the interface complicated or hard to control, but would be neat if done right, if not especially necessary.

Levelling... eh, I'd stay far away from that.
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#19 User is offline   Thestrangered 

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 06:00 AM

I've been thinking of new idea, which will solve all of the communication with brothers problem- Sirrus and Achenar not trapped (yet) by the time the Stranger finds Myst. Yes it's quite a big canon change, but since voice was not added to the Rime imager before Atrus moved to Tomahna, I've figured communication using the more primitive imager won't work. Also, this idea offers much better story, in my opinion

So I was thinking about a good storyline, and this is how the game could go: You link to Myst. The library is missing the red and blue books. You go around the ages. You will find Sirrus in one age, and Achenar in another age. They never meet, however they move around the age, allowing you to explore the different areas. When you meet them, they tell you they are in some kind of a fight, and tell you to help them by killing the other brother. The brothers also seems to hold books, Sirrus holding a red book and Achenar holding a blue book, however they never straightly say what these books are.

So you explore the ages and so on. You might have an assitance coming along with you, if you choose to. You find out, somehow, about the fireplace code, and find Atrus, who tells you everything about his sons' true nature.

Some time afterwards, while in Myst, Atrus comes back and calls you back to K'veer. So you link to Riven, do the Riven stuff (here's another idea: you link to Riven, knowing Atrus sent your friend/assistance before you. You find him in Tay, however when you link to Riven he is caught by Gehn and thrown to the Wrahk), trap Gehn, free Catherine, and open the fissure. However, once you do that, Atrus won't come back to take you and Catherine out. Suddenly a strange creature grabs you from behind (nice Bahro tie-in). You are knocked out cold, and comes back in K'veer.


Atrus is obviously not in K'veer. You link back to Myst, to the library, where you have a choice: the red and blue book are in the library. However, you also find the Rime book on the floor (someone took it out of it's Place of Protection). So what will you choose? since you could never visit the red and blue ages before (unlike Rime), linking in is tempting. However, we all know what happens than- we find Sirrus (if we link to Spire) and Achenar (if we link to Haven), and they, well, kill us. So the good choice is going to Rime, where you quickly enough find Atrus inside the imager room. On his knees. Blindfolded. And the room is burning.

So, you save him, and back in Myst Atrus tells you his sons tried to kill him, burned his imager, and said they would link to the prison ages. Atrus goes to the library, and infront of your eyes, burns the red and blue books.

After this dramatic moment, you both go back to Riven (which is now dying), where Catherine still waits (by the fissure). Than you get the goodbye scene, falling though the fissure, End.

TA DA! :D
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#20 User is offline   AaronAKAAtrus 

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 12:13 PM

nice.
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#21 User is offline   Koena 

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:00 AM

I would add several visual effects to make it more moody. I would try to give it some certain 'character' or 'psyche', not a neo-classical library beside a rocket ship. I would pronounce more the period character of the game, with victorian or baroque buildings with wooden surfaces. They would also look seasoned and abandoned.

Also, I would devise a highly detailed backstory and timeline and scatter more evidence about what happened before the game. Remnants of the civilizations that existed in the Ages etc.

Yet, I would try to maintain the sense of mystery and ambiguity. The player could not envision everything, and the necessary gaps would be haunting and eventually what would make it Myst.

I always had a hard time reading in-game texts so I would limit the journals a bit, and replace them with a flashback cutscene and narration.
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#22 User is offline   Johnraka 

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 05:07 AM

Yeh, real time graphics blah blah blah (all been said before but I thought I would say it anyway), graphics on a par with Exile and Revelation though not EoA.

A journal with picture (camera) capability.

Riven to be combined with Myst (a natural progression) maybe a linking book to Riven?

as for anything else - pretty much as above.

Got to say I like the 'lonely' aspect of the game - makes it just a little bit creepy and adds tension
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#23 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:15 PM

View PostJohnraka, on 25 May 2011 - 05:07 AM, said:

A journal with picture (camera) capability.

Yeah, I wish people had thought of that (and implemented it fully) before Uru/Revelation era.

Quote

Riven to be combined with Myst (a natural progression) maybe a linking book to Riven?

Well, Riven very easily connects up to Myst. Just have it so that whenever a person links back to K'veer after finishing Myst (maybe after a certain time so the responses seem a bit more natural) they get the Riven introduction Atrus gives. The music themes which go with the Cyan intro could go with a slightly more cinematic link to K'veer when that happens (or maybe when you open the book, Atrus gives a short message there asking for your help, and that's when that part of the music plays). The intro to MystRiven (the Cyan logo part, I mean) could be a new one or just the regular Myst one (with the Riven intro going if you wanted to choose a game starting from Riven, or just in the extras). The menu could change when you transition, with the options and menu stuff all designed around how the Riven menu looked, but with a different image for when you're just in Myst itself (maybe the falling man).

This is probably how it would have been if they were made today, I'd think. They tried very hard to fit the games together seamlessly.


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#24 User is offline   HJK148 

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

I don't know why I've listed my ideas, but I suppose it's quicker and easier to read than something that's half a page long:

- I'd start by trying to sort out the trap-book/trap-age contradiction, doing something like changing the red and blue books to link to Spire and Haven instead of the void between ages, since trap books aren't meant to exist.

- I'd probably leave a few hints or a journal to make it possible to find the Kveer linking book in the fireplace and instead of bringing a white page to Atrus, having to bring him a Myst linking book, just to balance out the fact that you'd have no one to tell you about it.

- The graphics could be updated a bit, not scrapping the pre-rendered graphics, because they look great when they're done properly and they don't cause a lot of performance problems, I'd probably get Ubisoft to do the graphics since they've done a great job in the past.

- I don't like the movement in REALmyst and Uru, I'd prefer the point-and-click movement from Myst-Myst IV. I assume I'm not the only one, since there's probably a few more people here who grew up with the Myst series.

- If the game was changed from using individual images when you're looking around the spot you're standing on, to the 360° camera from Myst III and IV it would make it a lot easier to navigate on some ages (I'm talking about you Selenetic).

- I'd Increase the fog on Selenetic to make it even harder to tell where you're going. Not really, it should be reduced enough to see where you're going, but shouldn't be taken away since it's a part of the age.

- I'd like to keep Rime in the game but add a few more ages to the crystal-viewer. Maybe any ages that Atrus knows about from Myst III, IV, V and Uru. And maybe add a few more places to explore since there's not really much of an ending and once you're done with Rime, you're basically done with the game until a few years time when you forget the answers to the puzzles.

- Multiplayer might be an interesting idea, but it could only work with the free movement of REALmyst or Uru, also how would you show other players without revealing what The Stranger looks like? Obviously the easiest solution to this would be to add character customization.
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#25 User is offline   Gehn, lord of ages 

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

View PostHJK148, on 28 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I don't know why I've listed my ideas, but I suppose it's quicker and easier to read than something that's half a page long:

- I'd start by trying to sort out the trap-book/trap-age contradiction, doing something like changing the red and blue books to link to Spire and Haven instead of the void between ages, since trap books aren't meant to exist.

This is the cleanest solution to the whole dilemma (although it introduces bigger issues in Riven), but it always seems to be far too much work for some bad endings that you don't want to be compelling people towards.

Although perhaps this could be worked around. Have something like Riven's intro, where the brother is tricking you into a trap (built in their own unique styles) which keeps you from any kind of exploration (and makes it a bad ending). The brother takes the book you brought with you (or yells at you for not bringing anything - you'd have ample instruction about bringing a book with you) and can have a villain monologue. You could still keep the books-as-communication-devices (or use the crystal imager for an actual purpose), with a bit of a sleight of hand just to explain why some books have a more static view while others float around.*

Quote

- I don't like the movement in REALmyst and Uru, I'd prefer the point-and-click movement from Myst-Myst IV. I assume I'm not the only one, since there's probably a few more people here who grew up with the Myst series.

Myst V's point and click style wasn't actually that bad in concept - realtime (but with what the modernized realMyst looks like, and other advances in technology - I think it could be done well for Myst) but still works with the idea of nodes. You just can have smooth movement between them, easy 360 views, and any other bells and whistles you wanted (even in Myst IV, there were so few transition scenes - and those lost the environmental effects half the time). There could also be free movement for people who wanted that (more important if there was multiplayer elements).

Quote

- Multiplayer might be an interesting idea, but it could only work with the free movement of REALmyst or Uru, also how would you show other players without revealing what The Stranger looks like? Obviously the easiest solution to this would be to add character customization.

Well, if you have multiple players you've already put some holes in the whole The Stranger concept. Character customization would work well if it was good, but I don't think any multiplayer mode would really be able to justify it. Maybe some way to leave small notes and photographs around for "later explorers" (either as a rather morbid setup which suggests some explorers came before you and failed, or for a post-main-story unlockable mode**).


*I'd suggest saying that it's something the writer can change. Atrus likes the moving-picture style book, but hadn't developed the style yet with his earlier books. Maybe D'ni writing tradition frowned on frivolous and confusing imagery (and so didn't teach any other styles and the techniques for such things), but Catherine experimented with the linking panel more and Atrus thought it was useful and pretty.

**After the Stranger has moved on (to Riven), other explorers still would sometimes stumble upon the Myst book. Each one could go around, perhaps solve some minor mysteries and try to find their way around Myst (with Atrus and the Stranger entirely focused on Riven, so they aren't paying attention to the new explorers, who in turn can't access the K'veer book for various reasons), leaving notes and the like around as they go. They'd never stumble upon each other, but that wouldn't necessarily mean no explorers were ever around at the same time. This would all be done in some kind of small network (your own saves [which could always be used if there wasn't an internet connection or you didn't want anybody else involved], maybe a few friends - this sounds odd, but it would actually work as a social-network connected game, unlike most things. Not restricted to people specifically meeting up and playing things, but not too crowded or open.)
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